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 Post subject: Re: Take all patch
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:25 am 
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Gallon covers about 1000 sq ft.


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 Post subject: Re: Take all patch
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:59 am 
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Location: Dallas,TEXAS
I think I have a similar problem. St Augustine in north Texas. Area getting mostly full sun. Browning occurring but with small amounts of green grass in the middle. Looks polka dotted. Haven't tried anything yes as this just popped up two weeks ago when I was out of town. Should I go down the corn meal path - 20 lbs per 1000?

Trying to provide a pic but having trouble uploading

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Take all patch
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:19 am 
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Corn meal will only help the yard, but I would definitely try to define the problem, as that can often lead to correcting the things that may have caused this in the first place. I did a few hours worth of research before I came to the conclusion that I was dealing with take-all-patch. You might try a search on this forum (or google) for dollar spot, particularly looking for pics and associated items that are similar to what you have.

The moderator on this forum is also an excellent resource.

Good luck -


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 Post subject: Re: Take all patch
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:26 am 
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Dirt Doctor wrote:
What you might all try is a spraying of Garrett Juice Plus, 1-2 oz of orange oil, 1 tbs of Bio Wash (not Plant Wash) and 8 oz (all per gallon of water) of grocery store hydrogen peroxide. This is basically the formula that was used in the successful rose rosette experiment.


I'm thinking the best time to apply this mix would be late evening here in the DFW area, since it appears to be very acidic. And is it necessary to water it in? 1 gallon per thousand is a very light spray. Suggestions?


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 Post subject: Re: Take all patch
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:46 pm 
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Location: Dallas,TEXAS
Based on the pic below it's definitely dollar spot

http://lifeandlawns.com/wp-content/uplo ... isease.jpg

I've never used bio wash. I'm assuming I can find that where I buy my other organics?


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 Post subject: Re: Take all patch
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:30 pm 
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I could not find it within 20 miles of my home. I checked all feed stores and nurseries within that radius, then decided to order it online. Lots of folks have plant wash, but not bio-wash. They are not the same. I'd call around, as there are probably some stores in the Dallas area which carry it.


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 Post subject: Re: Take all patch
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:52 am 
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I think I've got the fungus stopped, but it has taken it's toll. There's a reason it's called take-all-patch: see photos. And here's a few lessons I've learned, the HARD way.
1. Aerate the yard early in the year, especially if the soil is difficult for the water to penetrate. This alone probably would have prevented the take-all-patch. Frequent watering and a continually damp or wet surface is an invitation to the fungus and a good aeration will go a long way toward solving this issue.
2. Probably a good idea to acidify the yard once or twice a year if the soil and especially the water is a bit alkaline.
3. Corn meal as a preventive would be a good idea if the surface will remain wet for an extended period of time or the season or area necessitates more frequent watering (temps around 105 for a few days and full sun, newly planted sod, thin yard, etc).
4. Mulch or plant new sod over thin or bare spots.
5. Once the fungus is there, it is not easy to stop, but it can be done. I applied cornmeal at 30lbs per thousand, but probably waited too long (more than 4 weeks) between the 2 applications. I also applied Greensand and sulphur at the recommended rate. Previous to these applications, the soil PH showed to be well over 7.5, and probably approaching 9 or so. The fungus apparently does well in alkaline environments. The area of my yard that has some survivable St. Augustine left was mulched w/ a somewhat acidic mixture (see previous posts), and this seemed to help, but it also covers up the St Augustine runners, and seems to impede their growth.
6. Don't attempt to use the rose rosette mixture without the biowash. It will kill grass that gets full sun. I got a little desperate as the fungus was spreading from the backyard to the side and front yards, probably carried there by my mower, and the the biowash hadn't arrived in the mail yet.
7. If you have the fungus, mow uninfected areas of the yard first, the most infected areas last and then disinfect all yard equipment used afterward. This little tidbit of information was given to me by a local organic nurseryman and would have saved me more grief had I considered it sooner. I used a mixture of bleach and water.

Here are the pics, the last one being a part of the yard that was not infected as badly. Before the fungus, this was a nice, thick healthy lawn.

Image
[imghttp://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv13/Laurence1pics/IMG_0321.jpg][/img]
Image

Can anyone recommend a replanting procedure and a type of St Augustine grass to use?


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 Post subject: Re: Take all patch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:11 pm 
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I want to reply to the lessons you believe you have learned, because I you may have missed some things.

Quote:
1. Aerate the yard early in the year, especially if the soil is difficult for the water to penetrate. This alone probably would have prevented the take-all-patch. Frequent watering and a continually damp or wet surface is an invitation to the fungus and a good aeration will go a long way toward solving this issue.

Core aeration has problems. You can achieve the same result with none of the issues by spraying with any clear shampoo at a rate of at least 3 ounces per 1,000 square feet. This is a poor man's version of the surfactant that the pros use (called Cascade - not the dish soap). Spray it, irrigate with an inch of water, and repeat in 2 weeks. You may repeat as long as you want to. You can prove to yourself that it is softening the soil by sticking a screwdriver into the soil to see how deep it penetrates.

Quote:
2. Probably a good idea to acidify the yard once or twice a year if the soil and especially the water is a bit alkaline.

The best way to acidify the soil is a good organic program. Healthy soil microbes produce humic acids which work at the surface in the root zone. There is no way to really acidify the soil because the limestone is hundreds of square miles in area and hundreds of feet deep. Any acidity you gain is fragile because the first heavy rain will wash it away.

Quote:
3. Corn meal as a preventive would be a good idea if the surface will remain wet for an extended period of time or the season or area necessitates more frequent watering (temps around 105 for a few days and full sun, newly planted sod, thin yard, etc).

First part of that is correct. If the surface will remain wet as in several days of on and off rain or a hurricane, then stand by with the corn meal. However, if the temps climb high with plenty of sunshine and low humidity, then you may be watering every 5 days or even 4. But unlike the rainy days, the typically the low humidity and sunshine will dry the soil surface quickly. If that is the case you should not need apply extra corn meal.

Quote:
4. Mulch or plant new sod over thin or bare spots.

If the spot is thin or bare due to the disease, then apply corn meal before you do anything. The disease will take out new sod just as fast as established sod. I would never use mulch on turf. I don't even use compost.

Quote:
5. Once the fungus is there, it is not easy to stop, but it can be done. I applied cornmeal at 30lbs per thousand, but probably waited too long (more than 4 weeks) between the 2 applications. I also applied Greensand and sulphur at the recommended rate. Previous to these applications, the soil PH showed to be well over 7.5, and probably approaching 9 or so. The fungus apparently does well in alkaline environments. The area of my yard that has some survivable St. Augustine left was mulched w/ a somewhat acidic mixture (see previous posts), and this seemed to help, but it also covers up the St Augustine runners, and seems to impede their growth.

Here lies your most serious problem. Sulfur has been used as a fungicide for centuries. But the corn meal approach relies on healthy fungi for it to work. When you apply sulfur, I would not expect corn meal to work.

I guess I would be surprised if the mulch helped your cause, but I have an open mind on that. Perhaps it soaked up the moisture that would have otherwise helped to grow the disease??? In any case I would rake that mulch off now. As you have perceived, it does seem to impede the new growth of St Aug. I believe the same to be true for compost and even live oak leaves if you cannot mulch them.

Quote:
6. Don't attempt to use the rose rosette mixture without the biowash. It will kill grass that gets full sun. I got a little desperate as the fungus was spreading from the backyard to the side and front yards, probably carried there by my mower, and the the biowash hadn't arrived in the mail yet.

If you cannot get biowash, any soap will be better than none at all. Otherwise the recipe has oils in it which can act like magnifiers and increase the intensity of sunlight on the plants. You need to add enough shampoo to cause the orange oil to go into suspension. I would be surprised is there is much difference between biowash, plant wash, and shampoo. Apparently there is some difference - I'm just saying there is likely not much difference.

Quote:
7. If you have the fungus, mow uninfected areas of the yard first, the most infected areas last and then disinfect all yard equipment used afterward. This little tidbit of information was given to me by a local organic nurseryman and would have saved me more grief had I considered it sooner. I used a mixture of bleach and water.

I never babied my lawn with disease. You can do this if you think it makes a difference. Be absolutely sure you do not mow wet grass, though. There are several reasons for this but the idea of spreading disease brought it to mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Take all patch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:17 pm 
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I forgot to reply to the question.

Be absolutely certain the disease is gone. You can test with one piece of new St Aug before committing to buying half a pallet. Rake away the dead stuff, put the new grass down, step on it to make good contact with the underlying soil, water lightly 2x per day for a week. You should know in a week if it is going to die or take hold. You might put some corn meal on it when you plant.

What type of grass? Not Floratam, because you have too much shade. I have not made my cheat sheet for St Augustine yet to tell you which ones are dwarf, which are cold hardy, and which are disease resistant. Sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: Take all patch
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:43 pm 
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David,

Thanks much for your reply. It's very helpful and I'll be following your advice.
A couple of things to note or maybe some follow up information:
I think the major contributing factor to my initial problem was the slow penetration of the water through the top layer of soil. The water would stay on top for an extended period of time, and I was probably losing a lot to evaporation, hence the more frequent watering. The core aeration has taken care of that, but it does disturb the lawn greatly. I'll apply shampoo at the recommended rate when I re-sod.
I have applied a thin layer (1/4") of topsoil/mulch mixture (very fine) to some thin/bare areas in the yard over the past 6 months (uninfected areas), as this seems to help retain moisture and adjoining grass seems to be covering it much quicker. I don't know if this is a result of the very thin mulch layer or some healthy grass, but it has worked. What hasn't worked is thicker or more course material. No luck there at all.
As far as disinfecting the yard equipment, I think I'm hearing you say to take care of the soil and I won't have to worry about this. I think my intent at that point was to simply stop any more infection - I was getting a little desperate. The fungus patterns in the side and front yards showed a spreading from back to front yard through the side yards, and this is my usual patter of mowing. Kind of like running the mower through wet paint; once could detect where the mower had been by watching the fungus pattern.

Lastly, the pics of my yard were taken about mid morning. This area gets about 2-3 hours of full sun per day and the St. Augustine that was there before was thriving, so I think most of the St. Augustine would do well here.

Thanks again -


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 Post subject: Re: Take all patch
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:52 pm 
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Location: Corpus Christi,TEXAS
David Hall did you ever find out how many feet that Howard's concoction would cover, i was thinking about trying it.

Thanks Arnie


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 Post subject: Re: Take all patch
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:24 am 
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Spray this mixed product at 35 gallons per acres or approx. one gallon (0.8 gallon) per 1,000 sq. ft.

Mixed product: 2 oz. Garrett Juice Plus, 1-2 oz of orange oil, 1 tbs of Bio Wash (not Plant Wash) and 8 oz of grocery store hydrogen peroxide per gallon of water.


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