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 Post subject: pond care
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2003 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 7:36 pm
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Location: Hempstead,TX
Is there presently a discussion on small pond care on this website? (my first time to use it.) We have a small pond that is being overtaken by weeds. We have been hesitant to use chemicals to kill the weeds, especially as we had the pond stocked last year with quite a few fish. We have even put grass-eating carp in and they are either dead or don't like to dine on our particular kind of weeds.

Any suggestions?

JCR


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2003 7:26 am 
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We did start to discuss this a while back. Do a search (upper right corner)on pond or ponds and come on back to us if you need further info.
Tony M


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2003 8:10 pm 
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I think I understand that grass eating carp will get around to it in a couple years. Slow and steady, steady and slow, eventually very effective.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:56 am 
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Location: waxahachie
Several weeks ago, I spoke with Howard about putting something in my 1 surface acre stock pond to help clear up the water (until about 4 years ago it was a very clear pond). He suggested gypsum but did not know at what amounts. Can anyone help or suggest something else that will help precipitate out the particulate matter? 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:42 pm 
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Location: Prosper, TX
pmaass,

Gypsum is used to clear up ponds in some instances. You can also use aluminum sulfate as well. An even distribution of 400 to 700 lbs per surface acre of aluminum sulfate can help clear it up of inorganic suspended solids.

Essentially, a pond with muddy water has suspended solids caused by an similarly charged pond bottom and suspended solids. Remember that when it comes to positive and negative charges, opposites attract and similar charges oppose. So, this is why some ponds are more "muddy" looking than others...they have similarly charged suspended solids and pond bottom sediments.

When you use gypsum or aluminum sulfate, you change the charge of the ions on the pond bottom and make the suspended solids attract to and congeal on the pond bottom. This is the only method to reduce the amount of suspended solids besides draining the pond and installing a new clay liner of a different soil type. The disadvantage to using gypsum or aluminum sulfate is any mechanical disturbance on the pond bottom (fish, storm water, turtles, ducks, etc.) can cause the muddiness to occur again.

There is no EASY way to reduce suspended solids CHEAPLY (aluminum sulfate or gypsum). There is, however, a way to TOTALLY reduce suspended solids an EXPENSIVE way (new clay liner).

If your problem is not inorganic suspended solids, rather organic suspended solids, beneficial pond microbes such as Pond Packs and Pond Pills can increase water clarity dramatically.

Hope this helps "clear" up your problem! :D

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Trent Lewis
PondMedics Incorportated

"The leaders in organic management of large ponds and lakes."


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 11:47 pm 
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I'm pretty sure aluminum sulfate is not organic.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:12 am 
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Location: Prosper, TX
Mr. Hall,

Thank you for your input. You, however, are wrong in your statement that aluminum sulfate is not organic. Both aluminum and sulfur are naturally occuring minerals. They come from the earth. They are "organic".

When these two elements are combined, Al3+ and So4-, they are naturally attracted to each other and form a bond, therefore making aluminium sulfate.

On this note, in regards to our statement, "The leaders in organic management of large ponds and lakes." that Mr. Hall taking a stab at and trying to punch holes in....

We use an IPM approach to our pond and lake managment. This means that we combine our knowledge and experience of biological, chemical and mechanical methods and use them in combination with each other to provide a balanced management strategy for a pond or lake. In some instances only biological or "organic" means of management are necessary. In others, we must combine chemical, biological and mechanical methodologies to maintain a "natural" aquatic ecosystem.

Unfortuantely for urban ponds and lakes, we cannot always use bioaugmentation techniques exclusively because the urban ponds and lakes are not surrounded by "natural" features nor are they influenced by natural processes because they are in an urban environment. Therefore, we must take an IPM approach in most management situations.

We are "leaders" in this industry because we are one of the few companies in the country who are taking a proactive organic approach to our integrated pest management in large ponds and lakes. Most of the other dozen companies similar to us in the U.S. are still using conventional pesticide use ONLY to manage ponds and lakes. We believe there is a more "balanced" approach to this type of management.

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Trent Lewis
PondMedics Incorportated

"The leaders in organic management of large ponds and lakes."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:07 am 
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I wasn't trying to punch holes in your story. I think most of us here realize that aluminum sulfate is not organic. I mentioned it simply because your message could have misled some of the folks on the list to thinking it was. It needed to be aired or challenged.

You cannot redefine nature or the National Organic Standards to suit your particular marketing plan. Aluminum is not a naturally occuring mineral and aluminum sulfate is not an approved material for organic farming or any other organic purpose. The fact that elements occur in nature does not make them organic. Many elements on the periodic table of elements are highly poisonous in fact.

I could be wrong but I think most of us here see through the IPM mentality of minimizing synthetic chemical use but going ahead and using them whenever we feel like it. This is an organic forum through and through. We are not interested in balancing synthetic chemical use with organic materials. We are interested in 100% organic solutions. If you don't have an organic solution, you should at least mention that fact in your message so you don't get messages back that will offend your pride in your company.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:23 pm 
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Location: Prosper, TX
Mr. Hall,

Thank you for your reply. We do not redefine nature to suit our "particular marketing plan" as you so eloquently stated it. I sense that my professional input regarding ponds and lakes is not welcome on your discussion forum.

It seems that you are the moderator and "organic police" for this forum and you do not want any discussion regarding the combined use of biological, mechanical and chemical in relation to pond and lake management. The problem however, is there are many participants in this forum who need professional advice regarding the management of ponds and lakes. Seeing as you are experienced in lawns, people would like to have pond and lake questions answered by someone experienced in ponds and lakes, not lawns.

Last, if you were meaning to be offensive in your statements, no offense was taken. I don't get paid for answering questions here. But if we were doing it to get paid, we wouldn't be here. I suggest you appreciate our time and effort put forth in answering others' questions. This is one of the few "free lunches" people will get from a professional when a professional takes the time to participate in forums such as this. We're just doing what we love to do...helping folks manage their ponds and lakes...effectively, in a cost effecient way and most important -- correctly.

Good day, Mr. Hall.

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Trent Lewis
PondMedics Incorportated

"The leaders in organic management of large ponds and lakes."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:42 pm 
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This sounds like a discussion I had with one of the leaders in the organic movement about Organic pest control.
The leader (I'll call him Joe) was having lunch with (I'll call him Mike) and I when the discussion about crossing the line to a chemical came up. I sat and listened to this back and forth discussion and jumped in to try and get some common ground.
The first approach by Mike was to use organic inputs for his pest control treatments. Joe was obviously OK with that but wanted Mike to use organics all the time. The problem is you sometimes run out of options and have to admit it. At that time, Mike would approach the customer, inform them that he has done everything possible using organic inputs but the problem was still there. The customer in this situation made the choice to use chemicals to save his house from being destroyed.
This is still a win-win situation. Mike always uses the organic approach but when he does not have a solution or resolution to the problem it is up to the customer to decide. I explained to Joe that when Mike does have to use a chemical it applied at the lowest rates possible and at just the right locations.
Contrast that with Acme pest control coming out with a tank full of poison and soaking your entire property to avoid a call back.
Joe saw my point, accepted it, and now recommends Mike to others.
I can assure you Mike is on top of the latest organic inputs and tries just about everything he hears about.
Without this graduated approach our organic pioneers may disappoint their customers and give us a bad name. We've all heard it, "I tried organics but they don't work." If we don’t have a solution, admit it and do what you have to to take care of the customer. If you are a homeowner like most of us, take what organic ideas we can from guys like Mike and if the problem still exists, you can be in charge of this research.
If we keep guys like Mike in business they will eventually find an organic solution to everything. Without them we will just have Acme.
Tony M


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:41 am 
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I think Tony M has it pretty well down pat.

I'll take my comments to Mr Lewis off line, because he's getting a little too charged up about this.

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 Post subject: ponds
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:47 am 
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Location: Whitesboro,TX
All this being said - I have a question and I want Mr. Lewis's input.
I am told that Dallas owns the rights to all surface water in ponds and lakes (Dallas area vs Houston area, Austin,etc). This was done by someone back in the 20's. I have also been told that in the near future we will have to have permits to make ponds, lakes, and wells. If this is true, is there a time table when we can expect this to happen?
If we get a terrible drought. could Dallas make us drain our ponds and lakes, and stop using our wells.
For those of you who think this is not possible, this is happening in S East Tx concerning Houston. Your big city brethern are closer than you think.
Robert D Bard


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 Post subject: Pond care
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:20 am 
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Location: Hill County, Texas
Where can I purchase aluminum sulfate within 75 miles of Fort Worth? I need close to 1000 pounds to treat a 6 acre pond in Northern Hill County which has about 8 inches of visibility due to suspended clay. Gypsum is easily available at farm supply stores, but they are very proud of alum and I have a feeling I can purchase it cheaper from a chemical supplier. I have farm trailers and can pick up.

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fruitbat


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 Post subject: Re: pond care
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:24 pm 
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I would recommend products which go by the brand name BactaPur. They are all natural, do not contain any type of unnatural additives, no chemicals, no added enzymes, and no genetic modification.

They have products for de-nitrification, for reducing sludge, for reducing soluble phosphorus, and for improving water quality.

You can contact the company directly at bl@bactapur.com and arrangements can be made to ship you some products.

You can visit the company website at www.bactapur.com.

This company has been in business for 25 years now and their products are proven to be what does the job.

We are looking for stores and distributors in the Texas and Southern areas if anyone has any ideas.

Thanks,

Brian


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 Post subject: Re: pond care
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:20 pm 
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Bacta-Pur looks good to me. Assuming it is what it says it is (biological approach to clearing water), that's great.

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