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 Post subject: DE/worming questions
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:54 pm 
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Location: Denison, Texas
We were told by our vet that we need to deworm our cattle but we don't want to use the pour on (poison :evil: ) stuff he recommended. I seem to recall Howard saying that feeding DE will keep them worm free. Is that correct? If so, how do you feed it without them inhaling the dust? I believe I heard Howard mention that this should be avoided.

Thanks,
Patti


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 Post subject: de worming
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:05 pm 
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Location: Weatherford,TX
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=533

Can't help you directly but ck out the link above.

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 Post subject: De and cows
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:07 am 
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Location: Whitesboro,TX
We worm our cows every day with DE. We use about 1 lb of ground up alfalfa per cow, add beet pulp, dry molasses, and about 5 to 10 oz of DE and mix this in a 5 gal bucket. We then put this in a trough and let them go at it. We have been doing this with our cows for 3 years and with horses for 7 years and the do great and the dust is not a problem. In addition to this I use Basic H from Shakely every three months in their drinking water to be sure everyone is wormed properly. The pour on wormers may have a connection to Mad Cow Disease, along with feeding other species to cows.
Robert D Bard


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:12 pm 
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Location: Denison, Texas
Thanks Robert, that sounds like the way to go. No wonder your cattle are so healthy! Do you have a website with pictures of your herd?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:58 am 
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Is it necessary to feed DE on a daily basis to keep the cattle worm free?


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 Post subject: DE worming
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 2:57 am 
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I don't have web site yet, but hope to do that next year.
I don't know if daily feeding is necessary but I don't think free choice with kelp and salt will do it. I don't think that is enough DE.
I think two or three times per week would be ok but you have to understand my wife - she is going to do it everyday except if the weather is really bad - heavy rain, sleet, or freezing rain. Needless to say if you don't feed them in the evening they will let you know.
I think using the Basic H 4 times per year just gives us a little extra protection.
One other thing about DE is that when it is dropped on the pasture it goes into the soil and adds trace minerals. This is a better and easier way to spread trace minerals.
Bob Bard


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:32 am 
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Isn't it also important to get the animals away from their manure periodically? If you have a very active component of dung beetles and other similar insects/birds, then you should not have a problem, but if you do not (yet) have that, then rotating them out of the manured pastures is an alternative.

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 Post subject: worming
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:37 pm 
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Good health is helped by beneficial bacteria, worms, and dung bettles. A cow pattie only lasts about two weeks on our farm but for some reasons we don't have dung bettles. We had a other farm in east tx years ago and we were run over with them. A horse would make a pile and if it was in the evening they would attack it and take a lot of it under ground. I have look into companies that sell lady bugs, etc but know one sell dung bettles.

I have a friend close to Crockett Tx that had tons of dung bettles, but last year decided to use ear tag pesticide to get rid of flies. After 6 to 12 months the flies were back and all her dung bettles were gone. She will never do this again.
Robert D Bard


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 1:21 pm 
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It would be interesting to run a computer simulation (something an engineer would do) to see what the cost of using chemical insecticide is on a cattle operation. Besides the cost of using the insecticide itself, you have the added cost of undoing the damage it causes.

Once you start using it for something, the tendency is to continue using it. Then you lose your beneficials that had a job to do and you have to pay more money to do what they used to do for you. Dung beetles and the beneficial flies that decompose manure are extremely important to the soil fertility so you don't have to pay for continued use of fertilizers. Once you have used an insecticide, you are on the Dark Side and can't get out.

I have a sense that the use of chemical insecticides is the single biggest drain on net profit that a cattle operation can employ.

If you want to find a source for dung beetles, do an Internet search for Dr Pat Richardson at UT Austin. She's studied them for years and gets them from somewhere. You know there are different species of beetles for different cattle. The African cattle have different beetles than the Asian than the European than the American bison/elk/deer/sheep. I don't know what you need for, say a brangus, but Pat would.

I watch the dog poop in the yard and neighborhood. In the chemical program yards, those piles stand up proud for a week looking drier but still basically the same as the day they were laid. Eventually the grass grows up around them and they get mowed into oblivion. In the organic yards and my own, my dog's poop is covered with flies and roley polies almost immediately. After a day it has a definite slump to it and is starting to lose form. After another day you can hardly tell what it used to be, and when I step in it (yuck), it doesn't stick to my shoe (voice of experience). Two days later it is completely melted into the soil and you can't find it again. I LOVE organics! 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 12:03 pm 
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Location: Denison, Texas
Am I correct in assuming that if we begin feeding DE free choice 2-3X per week it will clear up any current worm problems and keep our cows worm free in the future? (We don't use any chemicals of any kind).

Robert, when you said,
Quote:
One other thing about DE is that when it is dropped on the pasture it goes into the soil and adds trace minerals. This is a better and easier way to spread trace minerals
, did you mean dropped into the soil through cow manure or by us broadcasting it?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:03 am 
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We feed our cows every day and we mix about an oz of DE with ground up alfalfa and beet pulp. We have free choice DE mixed in with kelp but I don't think they get enough that way. We have parasite problems.
I did mean manure. They absorb some of the DE for mineral sake and what passes through goes into the soil. Do you have sand or black clay.
Robert D Bard


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