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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:05 am 
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Dear friends,

I would be very appreciative of any help you can provide. I have a small Jane magnolia tree that is showing leaves are burnt. They are dry and crunchy. They appear all over the tree, maybe 40% of the leaves show signs of this burnt appearance. The tree is watered twice a week through a sprinkler system. It is in part sun part shade. Morning shade, afternoon sun.
We had been watering it with a hose in addition to the sprinklers depending on how the soil felt. However we did not do that additional watering for maybe two weeks. Could that have been the reason?
I have tried hard to do some research on line looking for some explanations. It is very confusing. Please let me know if you have any idea. My main concerns are:
1. Is this a bacteria or fungal disease?
2. If it is a bacteria, what to do? Remove the infected leaves? Spray the leaves?
3. Is it the exposure to the sun?
4. Should I water more often?

Oh! Something else. Before they turned burnt, I had noticed that the leaves had become somewhat yellow, they were not as green as before.

Thank you in advance for your time and kindness,


Attachments:
File comment: Could that line be a sign that it is a bug causing it, or is it something different?It is a small Jane magnolia tree, about three feet. Yesterday I noticed that there is a small flower bud appearing with much less intensity in color that before. We bought this tree in Nov. last year.
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File comment: Sometimes the burnt mark appears exactly in the middle of the leaves without touching the edges.
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File comment: There are many leaves that show this burnt looking appearance.
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IMG_5329.JPG [ 74.37 KiB | Viewed 180 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:18 am 
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The line is probably a bug. All trees are going to have a few leaves that aren't perfect, but when the tree is small it's more noticeable.

Are you in North Texas, dealing with this heat? When was the tree planted and are you aware of the techniques that Howard suggests for planting? If it was put in recently you can probably correct any problems by re-doing it.

Bacteria is unlikely, fungal problems tend to look and act different. This could simply be sunburned leaves. I had that problem the first summer I planted a bay tree (last year) but it looks much better this year. Having moved from the nursery to the yard may have meant that it didn't like going from partial shade to full sun.

There are some nursery folks on the site who can offer more advice on this particular magnolia - in my experience that when planted correctly they're pretty tough, but this type may be an exception.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:08 pm 
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Dear Northwesterner,

Thank you very much for replying.

Yes, I am in North Central Texas, Fort Worth, near Dallas.

"When was the tree planted and are you aware of the techniques that Howard suggests for planting?"

We planted the tree end November. By then I had not much more information than the label from Walmart. We had recently moved in and the previous owner had had what looked like a Southern magnolia that had completely dried the previous summer. A friend helped us remove it and in its place we planted this smaller type of magnolia. A friend of ours said to leave the dead roots of the former tree inside as it would serve as food. We put a bag of mushroom compost in the hole.

What are the techniques that Dr. Howard suggest? Are they posted in this site?


Do you think I can redo the planting? Or should I wait until the temperatures get lower? Would it be too late then? Is it too late?

I am very glad to hear that you do not think this is a bacteria! :o) I am also glad that your tree got better. You surely know a lot about trees!

"There are some nursery folks on the site who can offer more advice on this particular magnolia - in my experience that when planted correctly they're pretty tough, but this type may be an exception."

I probably did something wrong :cry: If you think about anything else, please let me know.

Deeply grateful!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:33 pm 
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A tree planted that recently can be corrected, and it can be done in the heat if it is done right, but don't fool with it until you're sure you know what you want to do.

Here's the short course:

When a tree comes from a nursery in a black pot the dirt in the pot against the plastic has baked for months or years, and can be almost as hard as a ceramic. This can keep water from penetrating to reach the roots once it is in the ground if that isn't softened or removed. Further, a tree planted in a pot was usually in only a few inches of dirt, and at some point the nursery scooped a few more inches of dirt into the pot around the tree to make it look like it has lots of room and lots of roots. But that extra dirt can smother the tree. If you plant this tree from the pot with extra dirt level with the surrounding soil, you end up with a tree planted too deep in the ground and it looks like a straight pole coming out of the ground, like this:

Image

If a tree is planted properly so the root flare (a part of the bole or trunk, NOT a part of the roots) is above ground, it looks like this:

Image

or this:

Image

(Root flare newsletter here).

When you bring home a tree in a pot, you need to soak it for an hour or so (you don't want to drown a tree over a long time, but an hour or two is fine). This will loosen all of the soil around the roots. Meanwhile, you need to dig a hole that is shallow and wide, like in this tree planting newsletter. Be sure to watch the video.

You can carefully knock much of the pot dirt off of the roots, and carefully unwind any that are wrapped around. If not straightened, those can become "girdling roots" or roots that are so tightly wrapped around the tree, from their placement in the pot, that as the tree grows larger the root strangles the bole.

Image

and

Image

So once you've soaked your tree and straightened the wrapped roots, carefully place the tree in the shallow hole and cover the roots with dirt (stake them down if needed) to keep them extended in the hole. When you have filled back the native dirt (no extra soil, no fertilizer or compost or potting soil or peat moss) you should fill it to the natural base of the tree, so the flare is flush or a little above the level of the dirt around the hole. It's in the video, this is just spelling it out some more.

So if you DIDN'T do this, but the tree has been in the ground for a while, then you can dig around the area where you planted it, carefully lift it out, straighten the roots, and make sure the hole that you replace it in isn't too deep and that it is wide enough to give the roots room. If you're not sure if you can do this when it is so hot, you might need to wait, as long as the tree doesn't get much worse than what you're seeing now.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Dear Northwesterner,

I truly appreciate the time you are taking to give me pointers on how to deal with my tree problem. Thank you for explaining what can happen with the roots in the nursery pots. I had read several articles on girdling roots due to other problems I had (and still have) with two oaks, but your explanation does shed new light, a new insight!

I need to study carefully your words and the videos. I have a few questions, maybe many that pop in my mind due to my ignorance in the field, but maybe as I go over your post and reading all you sent I will have other questions.

I hope you do not mind my coming back to you with a few more questions a little later.

Thank you deeply, Northwesterner! :)

God bless you!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:50 pm 
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There's another moderator (sandih) who works in a nursery setting and she may be able to give you more specific information about your tree, so I hope she spots this conversation and drops in to give you her advice. I've touched on general topics so far. You're welcome to ask all the questions you want - keep in mind that there are various forums for different topics, so you might want to pick and choose where to place other questions in the future (you get answers faster when the moderator of that forum knows someone is looking for help).

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:23 am 
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Your tree is not yet fully established so be sure you are watering weekly by hand in addition to a sprinkler system. most people think that their system will deliver enough water to take care of the tree's needs but they do not. Invest in a 'gator bag' or something like that, that will hold 10+ gallons of water and will release it slowly to the tree over about 9 hours. Do that once a week, and add in some organic root stimulator (or just seaweed solution) once a month.

When you see browning on the tips of the leaves or sides, that usually indicates roller coaster watering (way too wet or way too dry).

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:48 pm 
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Dear Northwesterner,

After reading the information you shared and seeing the video on planting from Dr. Howard:

1. I will dig up my Jane magnolia out of where it is. How wide a root ball should I dig up? Does it matter if we cut roots that have extended out from the original root ball?

2. Place the root ball in water for an hour (or should I do it for two?)

3. Should I make sure not all dirt comes of the roots, should I only work on the surface where suspected girdling roots may be formed? Should I work on the root ball after the soaking has taken place or is this not relevant? What would be best?

4. Meanwhile, we will make the hole wider and shallow as in the video. When we planted we just made in somewhat wider as in the directions of the nursery but not three times wider as Dr. Howard recommends.

5. Can I use the existing dirt in the area (containing the mushroom compost we placed in last November when we planted it). Should I remove it and get natural soil from the same garden?

6. After an hour soaking we will inspect the root flares. I am a bit unsure as to the root flares of such a young tree. Do they look like the ones of a mature tree, just smaller? How can I tell them apart from advantageous roots? If I cannot straighen some of the roots, should I cut them? How far?

7. Replant the tree in a way that it is one inch above the surface.

8. Reapply mulch around it, not close to the trunk.

9. Water again?

10. How often to water from then on?

We plan to do this Saturday, Lord willing. We will plan to take some pictures to show you. :o)

I just saw your website!!! You must know so much about nature and the beauty of life God has created! I hope to read more!

My husband says I am overloading you :| . I truly thank you for your time and kindness!

Sincerely,

northwesterner wrote:
A tree planted that recently can be corrected, and it can be done in the heat if it is done right, but don't fool with it until you're sure you know what you want to do.

Here's the short course:

When a tree comes from a nursery in a black pot the dirt in the pot against the plastic has baked for months or years, and can be almost as hard as a ceramic. This can keep water from penetrating to reach the roots once it is in the ground if that isn't softened or removed. Further, a tree planted in a pot was usually in only a few inches of dirt, and at some point the nursery scooped a few more inches of dirt into the pot around the tree to make it look like it has lots of room and lots of roots. But that extra dirt can smother the tree. If you plant this tree from the pot with extra dirt level with the surrounding soil, you end up with a tree planted too deep in the ground and it looks like a straight pole coming out of the ground, like this:

Image

If a tree is planted properly so the root flare (a part of the bole or trunk, NOT a part of the roots) is above ground, it looks like this:

Image

or this:

Image

(Root flare newsletter here).

When you bring home a tree in a pot, you need to soak it for an hour or so (you don't want to drown a tree over a long time, but an hour or two is fine). This will loosen all of the soil around the roots. Meanwhile, you need to dig a hole that is shallow and wide, like in this tree planting newsletter. Be sure to watch the video.

You can carefully knock much of the pot dirt off of the roots, and carefully unwind any that are wrapped around. If not straightened, those can become "girdling roots" or roots that are so tightly wrapped around the tree, from their placement in the pot, that as the tree grows larger the root strangles the bole.

Image

and

Image

So once you've soaked your tree and straightened the wrapped roots, carefully place the tree in the shallow hole and cover the roots with dirt (stake them down if needed) to keep them extended in the hole. When you have filled back the native dirt (no extra soil, no fertilizer or compost or potting soil or peat moss) you should fill it to the natural base of the tree, so the flare is flush or a little above the level of the dirt around the hole. It's in the video, this is just spelling it out some more.

So if you DIDN'T do this, but the tree has been in the ground for a while, then you can dig around the area where you planted it, carefully lift it out, straighten the roots, and make sure the hole that you replace it in isn't too deep and that it is wide enough to give the roots room. If you're not sure if you can do this when it is so hot, you might need to wait, as long as the tree doesn't get much worse than what you're seeing now.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:01 pm 
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Dear Sandi,

Thank you very much for responding :lol: , I just noticed your reply. Is there any kind of gator bag that is best? I noticed there are some that go around the base of the tree? Are they better? or is there no difference. How about some things that are planted in the ground like stakes to get the water deeper. Would you say they are reliable?

I am planning to dig up my little magnolia on Saturday to check the roots. I posted some questions for Northwesterner who has been kindly giving lots of advice. I am very ignorant about plants but love to learn a lot about them. Please, if you have any advice regarding my questions, I will very much appreciate as well.

How long does it take for a tree to get fully established?

I will read your post again. Thank you deeply!

God bless you,



sandih wrote:
Your tree is not yet fully established so be sure you are watering weekly by hand in addition to a sprinkler system. most people think that their system will deliver enough water to take care of the tree's needs but they do not. Invest in a 'gator bag' or something like that, that will hold 10+ gallons of water and will release it slowly to the tree over about 9 hours. Do that once a week, and add in some organic root stimulator (or just seaweed solution) once a month.

When you see browning on the tips of the leaves or sides, that usually indicates roller coaster watering (way too wet or way too dry).


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Did you watch this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5pD9mZx38E&lr

And read this page? http://www.dirtdoctor.com/Tree-Planting-Detail-Newsletter_vq1941.htm

Preserve as many of the tree's existing roots as you can.

You'll have to see what it looks like when you get to it, but start away from the tree and handle it carefully the whole time, don't prune branches or roots.

I've planted trees in July, and it can be done, but be very careful not to dry out the roots and with too much time out of the ground, while at the same time not keeping it in the water too long. Watch that video several times to get a feel for the way to handle that root ball once it is out of the ground and how to loosen those roots before you put it back in the ground.

As to the dirt to use, the compost has been in place for a while and probably picked up some of the local biological activity, but I'd mix it well with the existing dirt from the outer edges of the hole to give the tree the best opportunity to get established in the native soil.

BTW: I had to do this exact same kind of replant several years ago for my next door neighbor. She had a commercial landscaper put in a weeping yaupon, but they simply popped it out of the pot and into the ground with no preparation and months later it was looking sick and it wobbled in the hole.

Let's see if I can get these photos to display. It was August 2009 that we rescued her tree, these are shots of the work:

It was spindly, losing leaves, and still had a plastic tape around the base that could have girdled it all by itself, let alone girdling roots in the ground. It was also too deep in the ground because it had been too deep in the pot.

Attachment:
Yaupon-before-shot-1b.jpg
Yaupon-before-shot-1b.jpg [ 660.89 KiB | Viewed 95 times ]


I soaked it for an hour or so in the water and Garrett juice. Until it was wet through and easy to work with. I see by the container at the very bottom of the photo that I also used some fish fertilizer in the bucket.

Attachment:
Betty-yaupon-replanting-soak-1b.JPG
Betty-yaupon-replanting-soak-1b.JPG [ 243.33 KiB | Viewed 95 times ]



I may have trimmed this girdling root, but certainly would have tried to straighten it first, which is the best action. I probably staked it so it wouldn't assume the old position once we finished and the dirt was in the hole.

Attachment:
Betty-yaupon-root-circling-pot-1b.JPG
Betty-yaupon-root-circling-pot-1b.JPG [ 271 KiB | Viewed 95 times ]


This is what it looks like today:

Attachment:
YauponHolly-July2012-crop1b.jpg
YauponHolly-July2012-crop1b.jpg [ 737.24 KiB | Viewed 95 times ]

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:45 am 
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A tree can take 1 to 2 years to get established. I would get a watering bag that fits around the tree, and only use it once a week. Again, root stimulator monthly. Do this until we start getting much cooler temps in Oct/Nov. I would use the gator bag again next June, July August.

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