Winter grass in competiton with summer grass question...

[durst]

My yard is only 1 year old. Last year after installing sprinker systems, I had a yard consisting of about 75% different types of weeds and 25% actual grass. To combat the weeds for the next season, I was told to either use Corn Gluten Meal, or Overseed with rye for the winter to choke out the weeds in the spring. I decided on the later. I first added about a 1 inch layer of compost evenly, then seeded. The Rye (Perrinial) didn't take off growing until about spring, and mostly in patches. Then the summer came, and the summer grasses took over (Bermuda in front, and St. Augutine in back)

But the problem I have now is the rye grass is still present, but dead. Yes even in the middle of the summer, I have many patches all over the front and back yard of dead rye grass. The weeds are certainly much better this year, but it doesn't look as good as it should with all of the dead rye. I was aware of the competition that would come during the Spring, but it is now in the middle of July, and thought that by now I wouldn't see rye grass anywhere.

Is this normal? What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for the help,
durst

[Dchall_San_Antonio]

It's hard to know whether you're doing anything wrong. So far all we know is the grass you have.

How often and how much are you watering?

How often, how much, and with what are you fertilizing?

How often and how high are you mowing?

Are you mowing the St Augustine at the same height as the bermuda?

Have you used any herbicides, fungicides, or pesticides on the front or back?

[durst]

I water 2x a week, total of about an inch using sprinkler system.

Fertilize about every six weeks, just did the other day, with Organic Fertilizer.

Mow once a week, about 2 1/2 inches on Bermuda, and change setting to about 3 inches on St. Augustine

Never have used anything but organics on both front and back. Started learning about organic at the same time I built the house.

Thanks,
durst

[Dchall_San_Antonio]

You're taking good care of your turf. Except for a slight deviation from how I would water and mow, you're taking better care than I am.

I would drop the mower down all the way to 1/2 or 1 inch on the bermuda. At that height, it will turn into a flat grass and get real soft underfoot. For the St Augustine, if your mower goes any higher, I would raise it up. The two grasses you have should be mowed at opposite settings on the mower. Both of these settings discourage weeds and the other grass in their respective turfs.

As for watering, you're getting plenty it sounds like. I am pushing to water less frequently but water more deeply. If you could cut back to once a week or every 10 days or so, that would help discourage weeds and encourage your grass to be more drought resistant (stomp, stomp). Obviously you will have to water more deeply each time to make it a full week. Deep watering also helps soften your soil.

[Mr. Clean]

durst

I think Dchall_San_Antonio nailed this one for you. Reduce you watering, but continue watering deeply when you do. Mow the Bermuda low and the St. Augustine high.

I have tried over the past two seasons to encourage my Bermuda to grow taller by cutting it at the same height as my St. Augustine and Tall Fescue. That experiment has proved totally unsuccessful as now that area of Bermuda, which began as a healthy stand, is thin and scraggly, in spite of the additional ammendments I have applied to the area.

[durst]

Thanks for the respones guys, I do appreciate it. But I guess I needed to state my question a little clearer. I do have a few weeds present, but not anywhere near last years count. I am content with the amount I have now.

The question I have now is, is it normal to have this dead rye grass still mixed in with my summer grass even this late in the summer? I have never overseeded before, and at this time, I am not happy with it and will probably not do again this year.

I know the ideal situation is to water an inch only ONCE a week, or less if possible, but I am working my way to that. I will eventually. And I will take your advice and keep the St. Augustine high and Bermuda low. I guess my only hesitation is that the Bermuda being too low might cause some more weeds to pop up. As it is now, I have a few very thin patches in the yard, and it is hard to keep it so short without that thought of them coming back.

Thanks again,
durst

[Mr. Clean]

durst

The last few winters have been so mild that a significant part of my St. Augustine has remained green year round. My Fescue also stays green for most of the year. So I have not been tempted to overseed. It sounds as though you are going to forego this process in the future.

I commend you for having the ability to "accept" a percentage of weeds in your turf. I began following HG's suggestion regarding weeds some years ago and I am a happier person for it.

When we suggest cutting your Bermuda short, this is not calling for you to scalp it. If you have areas in your Bermuda which are so thin as to reveal bare soil you should mulch those. Healthy Bermuda grass is very aggressive and should fill in the bare spots quickly.

[Tony M]

durst-
I have the same problem you are describing. With all the rain we had in Dallas this spring and the ideal growing conditions, the rye grew thick and held on longer into the bermuda growing season. This had two effects on me, the bermuda couldn't get as established as it normally would and the rye held longer into the summer. Rather than dying gradually and being replaced by bermuda it hit the summer wall and died in mass Hence, the brown spots. I had to lightly rake the dead rye to get the bermuda to fill in. If I had scalped it a couple of times it may have had the same effect but I don't like scalping. Did that answer your question? I can't address the St. Aug. because I have none.
Tony M

[Dchall_San_Antonio]

It sounds like the answer to your simplified question is no, it is not normal, but you are not alone this year.

I don't know why the St Aug did not fill in for you. I find that St Aug does not send runners out all summer long. If you miss your window of opportunity in the spring, you might have to wait awhile for cooler soil temps to return.

[durst]

Yes,

This is what I was looking for. I thought I was not alone, but just wanted to make sure. I guess it is just the conditions from this years season. I'm not sure if I am going to overseed again this fall or not.

Thanks for the help.

durst