Two seasons of tomatoes bite the dust

[MaryLou]

What am I doing wrong?!!!!

Both my spring and fall tomato plants got the wilts and produced only a few tiny tomatoes. When I planted them I put a handful of each of the following: cornmeal, cottenseed meal, dry molasses in the ground with each plant. I had mixed in home made compost before planting. The dirt is sandy loam; emphasis on sandy. I use a meter to determine when the plants are getting dry. They get dry pretty fast being raised and with the sandy soil.
My garden is raised about 15 inches surrounded by cinder blocks. It is about 5 ft by 12 feet. I added cotton seed meal and molasses evey 2 weeks. They were doing great for about 2 1/2 - 3 months! Then all of a sudden the plants started getting yellow. I put cornmeal juice on them every week, sprayed with compost tea.

The markers for these plants have all kinds of letters after them, i.e. resistant to everything.

Anybody got any ideas?

[khwoz]

http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=1575

Check the link above. You overdid it & burned your plants up. Basically you created a compost pile in the planting area. Read the info on this site & next year you should have a great planting area if you don't add all that stuff at planting & afterward.

[MaryLou]

How often do you feed your tomato plants?

[cstevens]

I didn't think one could "burn up" plants using organic methods. However, I think that a handfull with each plant was probably a bit much.

[MaryLou]

Perhaps I should add that I mixed it in very well with the soil in a diameter of about 1 foot when I planted the plants.

These plants did VERY WELL for almost 3 months. You would think that the initial "compost pile" that I planted would present problems long before then.

However you do bring up a potential problematic situation. Is it possible to have too much nitrogen in the soil even tho it is from organic sources? If so, what problems would it cause?
I also mixed in a handful of dry molasses, which I thought would promote friendly bacteria growth. Could I be making too much friendly bacteria? If so what problems would that cause?
And, as I mentioned, I mixed in a handful of corn meal (recommended by several folks that frquent this website to combat the wilts).

Handful = reach in a bag and grab = about 1/4 cup

[khwoz]

I don't believe you had too much nitrogen, just too much hot activity in your garden. Keep in mind that the amendments you used usually go down at a much lower rate which is why I posted the link. Liquid molasses & dry molasses are also used to heat up a compost pile. The addition of molasses & the meal every two weeks is too much which is why I believe you burned the plants up. Just because something is organic doesn't mean you can use unlimited amounts. The organics do give us much more flexibilities in application timing. A couple of examples would be 5% apple cider vinegar & orange oil; great at the recommended amount but they will burn & even kill plants if used too strong.

[Kathe Kitchens]

Have you investigated the possibility that your tomatoes were attached by root not nematodes? They are most at home in moist, warm sandy soils and most abundant in the top foot or so. Some orange oil in your drench would probably have taken care of the issue, if that had been the problem. Or you can blend some orange peels into your soil.

Mixing the amendments into sandy soil isn't so much a problem as when one does so in clay soil, creating an artificial pot type condition that limits the plant's root growth. I'm wondering if you changed the pH or chemistry balance with your program. Remember anytime you have bacteria and sugar but not enough oxygen, you're going to have anaerobic bacteria growth, and that can lead to root rot. Which makes me wonder whether the molasses in the hole isn't the final culprit, causing negative bacteria to grow once the moisture and temps got to the right level.
Molasses and any sugar should always stay on the soil surface for that reason.

There's more to investigate, so good luck next year!
Kathe :D

[e Craig]

I have a couple of concerns about the history that you have described. One is the watering schedule.

The advice that we've heard to water one inch weekly is a myth. Trying to do this will be wasteful of time, money and water.

This would equate to 52 inches of rain a year! The plants in our lawns do not need these subtropical rain forest conditions to survive.

Watering, or irrigation if you will, should be performed only as needed to help the plants survive dry periods or other stresses, such as transplanting. If you have mostly native plants, or plants that have been well selected for your climate there should be only occasional need for watering.

May I suggest, try watering warily:
1. Water only as needed.
2. Water only where needed, not on paved areas.
3. Use methods that minimize waste such as drip irrigation, soaker hoses, and night watering if using sprinklers.
4. A schedule of occasional heavy watering is considered far better than frequent or light watering.
5. Try to wait for rain, watering carefully only as needed for survival.

Often, we are watering a lot because we are watering a lot. The plants have come to depend on the excess water and do not develop the root system needed to tap into the water table. That is, if they do not develop unhealthy conditions due to over watering. Further, if you have been helping build a healthy organic soil society, it can store a lot of water, as well as develop capillaries that will wick water from the water table up into the root zone.

The lawn and bed watering program we have found most efficient, in terms of water use and time involved, as well as plant response, is:

(1) Wait for the top two inches of soil to become dry.
(2) Apply enough water to saturate the top six inches of the soil.
(This will probably be done in the time it takes your sprinkler to fill a can to about one inch deep.)
(3) Return to step one.

Initially, some areas and plants may demand water sooner. Delay as much as possible, but don't lose your plants. Do keep stretching the intervals. The plant's roots will be encouraged to grow deeper to find the ambient water for its survival. Eventually, as the plants improve, you will even go weeks between waterings!

And in case of a drought, if your municipality should impose rationing, you will be able to skip several official watering days.

Take care.
Craig

[e Craig]

I am also concerned because you seem to be trying to feed the plants with organic fertilizers.

While browsing these forums, I note many people who are trying to simply feed plants or kill pests with a less harmful method or substance. We need to think differently.

One of the tenets of organic gardening/farming is to build a healthy soil society. A healthy soil society will support healthy organisms, whether they are micro-organisms or the plants that we see and desire.

Most of us have decided that using poisons to promote life is a strange oxymoron. As we switch from chemical training to organics we tend to continue thinking as we were previously trained. We may only seek to feed the plant or kill the pest with a less harmful method or substance. We need to step back and take another look.

If you are buying into the idea that the healthy soil will allow/help the plant to be healthy, then you will soon note that the poor health of your plant is the result of an imbalance in the soil. Indeed, even insects will target the unhealthy plant and not nearby healthy ones. So, if we target the pest disease or insect, we will be attacking the symptom, not the cause.

WE SHOULD NOT BE trying to figure out how to schedule the delivery of specificaly what the plant needs. Instead,we should be, in moderation, adding a wide variety of natural materials that will help build the healthy, balanced, soil. The plant can then pick and choose what it needs, when it needs it. This could be called "stocking the pantry, not setting the table".

Now then, we will use the symtoms to decide what else is needed to bring the soil into a better balance. Thinking in this wholistic manner is far less stressful. Enjoy!

Take care.
Craig

[MaryLou]

Kathe Kitchens wrote: Have you investigated the possibility that your tomatoes were attached by root not nematodes? They are most at home in moist, warm sandy soils and most abundant in the top foot or so. Some orange oil in your drench would probably have taken care of the issue, if that had been the problem. Or you can blend some orange peels into your soil.

When I pulled the plants up, I checked out the roots; no sign of Nematodes that I could see. (I have seen evidence of these critters when I gardened in Southern California).


Kathe Kitchens wrote: Mixing the amendments into sandy soil isn't so much a problem as when one does so in clay soil, creating an artificial pot type condition that limits the plant's root growth. I'm wondering if you changed the pH or chemistry balance with your program. Remember anytime you have bacteria and sugar but not enough oxygen, you're going to have anaerobic bacteria growth, and that can lead to root rot. Which makes me wonder whether the molasses in the hole isn't the final culprit, causing negative bacteria to grow once the moisture and temps got to the right level.

Molasses and any sugar should always stay on the soil surface for that reason.
:D

I have usually been able to smell anaerobic decomposition; but did not notice it here.

Kathe Kitchens wrote: There's more to investigate, so good luck next year!
Kathe :D


Thanks for the ideas...

MLT