Tree container mix

[lou_midlothian_tx]

Hi,

What do y'all use for mix to grow trees in the container before planting out? Thanks.

[The Ent]

Honestly, Lava Sand, Mushroom Compost 1:1 with a dash of bat guano and earth worm castings.. sometimes some Volcanite.

If it's a tree or shrub that's not going in a bed, I'll take the above as part one and mix that into an equal amount of the soil it'll be going in later to get it used to that soil.

[lou_midlothian_tx]

Interesting. I probably didn't use lava sand last time. Too much topsoil and not enough lava sand for aeration. I'm going to avoid topsoil from now on and just stick to pine bark, perlite, turface, etc to maximize aeration and growth in rootmaker container. I tried topsoil experiment because Howard said it worked better but so far, I'm not seeing the benefits. I don't know where he got that information from. He never went into details over that either. After two years, only 6 inches growth for oaks grown from acorns.

[Dirt Doctor]

What fertilizers were used with the topsoil?

[lou_midlothian_tx]

Organic fertilizer. Doesn't work. It's probably best for trees in the ground and stick with synthetic fertilizer for container grown trees. The problem with organic fertilizer is that they promote high microbes growth breaking down organic matter quickly into wet mushy stuff that hold water too long. Not good for containers. Great for trees in ground. Two very different things.


It simply does not work. I searched for the info about using heavy mix and nothing is out there. In fact, every place I looked is strongly against it. it just doesn't work. NO OR LITTLE ROOT GROWTH AT ALL is what I have observed after 2 years.

Metro Maples' shantung maple grew 6 feet in one year in the container and it looks to be mostly pine bark mulch. Light and porous. Obviously, that is the key to healthy and vigorous root growth.

I talked to a guy who does bonsai for a hobby about it and said topsoil with clay is about the worst thing you can do to grow trees in the container....


I'm going to use a mixture of pine bark mulch, cedar flakes (in place of peat moss) and small sharp 3/8th" rocks for fast drainage yet airy enough to not to stay excessively wet. Hate to say this but I'm going with synthetic fertilizer for trees in the container... much like Whitcomb's way.

[David660]

Sounds like you're over watering. With an organic program you don't have to water as much. You want to stimulate the microbes and feed the soil, not the plant. Might want to find other containers because you might not have proper drainage.

Mixing the organic program with the synthetics is a waste of time and money.

[lou_midlothian_tx]

David660 wrote: Sounds like you're over watering. With an organic program you don't have to water as much. You want to stimulate the microbes and feed the soil, not the plant. Might want to find other containers because you might not have proper drainage.

Mixing the organic program with the synthetics is a waste of time and money.

Try it growing in topsoil in the container.


I never said I mixed both organic and synthetic. You're totally missing the boat. Growing trees in the ground and container are two totally different things. I've tried this for 2 years and I got terrible result out of it.

http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/earthpot.htm

I have to agree with that website.... Like it or not.

[David660]

Sorry I missed the boat. Just trying to help.

[gsblake]

In my experience what you want to aim for is a mixture that not only drains well but is light and fluffy - easy for the seedling roots to grow through. That's where our native soil (even amended) fails. You're right - Metro Maples uses a mixture of forest humus and pine bark in their mix. If you look at Japanese Maple or Rhododendron seedlings/small grafts/rooted cuttings from the most reputable growers in the Pac NW (Iseli, Van Veen, etc.) you'll find they use pretty much 100% peat.

For my young Maples I use a mix of about 25% acid-mix soil from Soil Building Systems (substitute quality organic soil enriched with forest humus and a little sand - acid mix not necessary for non acid-loving plants obviously), 25% peat, 25% pine bark (I mash it up into smaller pieces than come in the bag), 25% Perlite, and this time of year I add a healthy dose of ground up oak leaves. Once I have the basic mix I adjust until I have a good fluffy result. (Note, a lot of Maple hobbyists I know don't use any soil, just some combination of the other ingredients.)

If my ultimate goal for the seedling is to plant it in the ground or even in a raised bed I'll introduce percentages of that soil into the mix as the seedlings grow and I repot.

I saw the comment about using native soil for oaks too - I took some red oak acorns from my yard and potted half in a native soil/compost mix and the other half in the mix I outlined above. We'll see what happens.

[The Ent]

Lou-
The goodly amount of Lava Sand I use in my potting mix keeps a good balance of moisture, which is why I use it. Holds a bit of water in it to release later when the soil dries too much, but in the mean time keeps the overall soil light enough to shed excess water and keep a reasonable gas exchange going. End result- no soup.

I use organic fertilizer in this environment and it's been fine. There's probably a good chance that the decomposed granite Howard likes will have much the same effect.