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 Post subject: Zeolite & Dry Molasses?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:45 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:44 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Waco,TX
I recently read the Dirt Doctor's article about spreading Zeolite & Dry Molasses to help green up a lawn from yellowing of the grass, and my question is can I add these ammendments during the winter to help the soil for spring & summer?
Also, I applied Corn Glutten Meal in August and I am seeing more weeds than every before right now. I don't see any beneficial results from the application. I followed directions very much to the recommendations, and I still am seeing a great variety of weeds. I have also sprayed a "vinegar based" treatment from Gardenville and that only sets the weeds back temporially.
HELP?
Rick B. in Waco


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 Post subject: Re: Zeolite & Dry Molasses?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:58 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Arlington, Texas
Hi Rick,

Give us a few more details. Do you garden 100% organically, or are you also using synthetics?

If organically, for how long?

Are there other treatments you have used on your lawn?

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Cara
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Take time to stop and smell the flowers!
(or... as my ladybug refrigerator magnet says
"take time to stop and eat the flowers!" :D)


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 Post subject: Re: Zeolite & Dry Molasses?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:44 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Waco,TX
I am TOTALLY organic and have been for almost 15 years now.
I lost a great amount of my St.Augustine in my front yard a year ago to "spurge," but added amendments (compost, lava & green sand) then sprigged last spring and it all came back and filled in nicely.
Other than the corn gluten meal I applied last fall there is nothing else non-organic on my lawn.
I'm beginning to think the corn gluten meal is just a fertilizer and not a deterrent to weeds.
I have my own compost, but use it only for my vegetable garden.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Rick in Waco


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 Post subject: Re: Zeolite & Dry Molasses?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:58 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Arlington, Texas
You're right about the corn gluten meal (CGM). It is very high in nitrogen and, so, is a great fertilizer. I'm curious as to where you heard that you should apply it in August. From what I understand about it, as below, I think you did indeed put some high-powered fertilizer on your weeds.

As to applying it for its pre-emergent benefits, it took me quite a bit of research to know how & when to apply it.

For weed control, it needs to be applied in the early Spring (usually in late February, depending on the weather), before any weed seeds germinate. Same for winter weeds -- apply in the late fall, before those seeds germinate.

I haven't done a fall application on our yard so I'll hold off making any recommendations as to timing on that. Howard says September/October, but I'm not sure what it is that drives when you apply it. Hopefully, this forum's moderator will enter the thread and shed some light on that for both of us. :shock:

For the spring, apply in February (must be done before March 1st). The CGM should be lightly watered in, but needs to be dry for a period of time after application to increase effectiveness. I never did find a firm definition for the "period of time" but I aimed for 4-5 days, and that is what I got last year. Lastly, any other fertilizers or stimulants should be applied 1-2 weeks after CGM application.

We have seen a significant reduction -- from just that one application -- in dandelions, and a few other weeds that I haven't ID'd yet.

And, with our 100% organic treatment of the yard, we've seen hardly any grass burs. :D

Don't give up. It really does work!

Happy Gardening!!

_________________
God speed!
Cara
**
Take time to stop and smell the flowers!
(or... as my ladybug refrigerator magnet says
"take time to stop and eat the flowers!" :D)


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 Post subject: Re: Zeolite & Dry Molasses?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:58 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Arlington, Texas
Oh, I just realized you asked about zeolite and dry molasses. You can definitely add dry or liquid molasses any season. It feeds the microbes in the soil. :D

I don't know about the zeolite so -- again -- maybe Dchall will jump in.

_________________
God speed!
Cara
**
Take time to stop and smell the flowers!
(or... as my ladybug refrigerator magnet says
"take time to stop and eat the flowers!" :D)


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 Post subject: Re: Zeolite & Dry Molasses?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:26 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:52 am
Posts: 56
Howdy!

I spread CMG in Feb. and Oct. I have been very pleased with the results. I do practice deep root, infrequent watering.Weeds do like a moist ground!

I spread molasses once a month, except for Dec, Jan.
I will start up agin in Feb.

I have never used Zeolite.

Good luck!
Char Harris
Flower Mound, TX


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 Post subject: Re: Zeolite & Dry Molasses?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:52 pm
Posts: 1985
Location: Dallas,TEXAS
From Howard's article library under "Learn"


Zeolite


Zeolite can also be used for air and water purification, cat litter material, shoe deodorizers, animal feed supplements, garage floor spill removers, cooler and refrigerator odor and moisture removers, animal stall odor and moisture removers, and soil amendments. Mix raw zeolite (powder or granular) into the soil for new bed preparation. Broadcast onto contaminated soil to detoxify. Rates can vary from 10- to 50 pounds per 1,000 square feet. More than 50 pounds won’t hurt anything but is probably a waste of money. Zeolite has a very high cation exchange capacity (CEC). It helps fertilizer to be more efficient. A natural ore used to absorb odors, gases, liquids and as an amendment to most soils. Zeolites are natural volcanic minerals with unique characteristics. Their chemical structure classifies them as hydrated aluminosilicates, comprised of hydrogen, oxygen, aluminum, and silicon arranged in an interconnecting lattice structure. Zeolites heave the ability to change and absorb certain harmful or unwanted elements from soil, water and air. An example is the removal of calcium from hard water. Zeolite has a strong affinity for certain heavy metals such as lead and chromium. Zeolite works as a soil amendment by absorbing nutrients, especially nitrogen, and then releasing them at a rate more beneficial to plant root development.

Zeolite is a natural volcanic mineral. It contains a wide array of basic minerals that were spewed back to the earth’s surface in a cataclysmic event - a volcanic eruption. Over millions of years, hot springs leached the calcium, sodium and other contaminants out leaving a unique material. Finely ground zeolite has an amazing capacity to grab things - odors in the air - all kinds of odor, and contaminants in the soil. It especially likes ammonia -raw nitrogen. So, if you’ve been using synthetic fertilizer, an application of Zeolite will grab that excess nitrogen and release it slowly so it is useful to plants — and isn’t leached into our water systems. Its capacity to grab odors makes it a great material in cat litter. And, it’s the crunchy material that comes in those little bags that are sold to absorb odors in refrigerators, closets and such. And it’s reusable. I bought a chunk of it at an aquarium shop. I keep it in my aquarium with my albino frogs. Periodically, I put it out in the yard in the fresh air and sunshine where it releases the absorbed odors. Then I put it back with the frogs. This is a very useful product in the organic program.

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Sandi
Texas Certified Nursery Professional
Texas Master Naturalist
Organic gardener
Tree-Hugger
Native Texan


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 Post subject: Re: Zeolite & Dry Molasses?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 3:45 pm
Posts: 2842
Location: San Antonio,TEXAS
I'm not sure zeolite has any value except for holding onto nutrients or absorbing poisons. Zeolite is basically clay kitty litter.

The fall app of CGM is designed to stop the wildflowers from coming up in the later winter to early spring. That was a good call. Apparently your timing was off. Timing is a huge problem for preemergent herbicides. My wife has finally "authorized" me to apply CGM every month to try to get weeds under control. I will be sure to let the forum know how that goes.

Many wild flowers sprout in the fall. Bluebonnets are among the fall sprouters. The seeds germinate and the plant lays there dormant until the conditions become right. Other "wild flowers" are simply weeds in the lawn, so that's what you're trying to get rid of.

Bluebonnets, by the way, are blooming down by George West. Should be coming to San Antonio soon and then north.

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David Hall
Moderator
Dirt Doctor Lawns Forum


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 Post subject: Re: Zeolite & Dry Molasses?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:37 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:52 am
Posts: 56
The fall app of CGM is designed to stop the wildflowers from coming up in the later winter to early spring. That was a good call. Apparently your timing was off. Timing is a huge problem for preemergent herbicides. My wife has finally "authorized" me to apply CGM every month to try to get weeds under control. I will be sure to let the forum know how that goes.

_______________
Yes...please lets us know! I did apply CGM the middle of Feb. and will apply again in May.

I have had more weeds popping up than I can remember EVER having. BUT.....nothing compared to what I am seeing in my neighborhood. The weeds are small and just on the surface. Very easy to remove. Which I have been doing daily.

As I have mentioned, I am new to Organics.....and to taking care of my yard. We had a yard service most of our 'married life' (40 years in May). I am embarrassed to say....it never dawned on me to lay CGM in my flower beds. WELL about 3 weeks ago, (after a rain) these little things started sprouting up everywhere. Even in my hanging potted plants. It even grows on the top of my rocks. It is a little sprout with 2 tiny little leaves. It does grow taller and the leaves remain small. I have alot in the front yard and very little in the back yard. It is in my grass too. We replaced our grass in the backyard last March. It is more dense than the front yard which was laid in late June. I am assuming that is why I have more in the front lawn.

I did take a sample to Calloways. They could not place it. I 'hoed' my beds and then added new mulch. My husband and I are pulling it from the grass, but it is a big job!

Does anyone have info on this weed? Is there some treatment I should have done in the fall?

Best regards,
Char Harris
Flwoer Mound, TX


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 Post subject: Re: Zeolite & Dry Molasses?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:39 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Dallas, TX
R Butler wrote:
I have also sprayed a "vinegar based" treatment from Gardenville and that only sets the weeds back temporarily.


That may not be such a bad thing. Keep in mind weeds are annual so the summer heat or the winter cold will kill them. All you need to worry about is preventing them from dropping seeds for next year. A weak and stressed weed won't be producing much if any seed.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeolite & Dry Molasses?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:00 pm
Posts: 6
Zeolite is not "basically clay cat litter" and offers many significant benefits for a wide array of horticultural applications including turf.

First, there exist about 50 different types of naturally-occurring zeolites. Some are clays such as bentonite (the stuff that clumps in cat litter), others are not clays albeit they share many of the same properties. This is significant because one of the greatest benefits is that the right kind of zeolite will continue to do its job for many years helping your lawn, pockbook and the environment.

Clays are stratified structures - they are layered like pages of a book. When they get wet they swell, when they dry they shrink; same when they are exposed to freeze-thaw cycles. Other zeolites are stacked interlocking tetrahedrons (like honeycomb) that are stable and inert and are able to adsorb and desorb water and nutrients without undergoing any physiological change. Imagine the difference of soaking up water with a paperback book versus a sponge and you get the idea.

Some zeolites have a sodium base (with the exchangeable cation being sodium), others are potassium-based. Potassium-based zeolites are far superior for use in soil. The most widely utilized zeolite in horticulture is clinoptilolite. As with most other mined minerals there are a variety of sources, some of high purity, others far less pure. A good quality potassium-based zeolite should be at least 75 per cent clinoptilolite and have a high CEC (cation exchange capacity) of 150 plus meq per 100 grams.

To achieve the greatest benefit of the zeolite it should be introduced to the rootzone. In existing lawns this is best achieved after aerating. Mix some sand, fertilizer and zeolite and brush it into the holes. Use approximately 100 lbs of zeolite per 1000 ft2 of lawn. Do this year one and year three and you will be set.

Based on scientific research these are some of the benefits you can expect:

* Earlier "green-up" in the spring, stays greener through the season and longer into the fall.
* Prevents soil compaction.
* Lofts soil and improves aeration.
* Retains water, holds 55% of its weight in moisture.
* Enhances hydraulic activity/capillary action of water in soil preventing dry spots.
* Slow-release fertilizing capacity provides nutrients to the root zone as required.
* Provides a source of nitrogen once loaded (2.2%).
* Provides a source of calcium (1.6 %).
* Provides a source of phosphorus (3.5 % plant available, not soluble).
* Dramatically increases cation exchange (CEC) in soil (180-220 meq / 100 g).
* Enhances turf strength and performance.
* Improves root development and health.
* Reduces the severity of water repellency
* Buffers soil pH helping prevent nutrient lock-up.
* Prevents nitrogen leaching.
* Prevents nitrogen burning.
* Provides high porosity and infiltration levels.
* Reduces alkalinity effects.
* Provides an excellent platform for microbial activity.
* Absorbs and traps many toxic contaminants.
* Promotes alkali metal equilibrium.
* Absorbs excess salinity in soils.
Reduces watering requirements by as much as 40 %
Reduces fertilizing requirements by approx. 20 %

Clinopilolite is stable and will continue to provide these benefits for many years.

If you would like more information on this topic feel free to send me a message on this forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeolite & Dry Molasses?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:14 pm
Posts: 12
Location: CORPUS CHRISTI,TEXAS
Soilgeek,

I can't find zeolite in any of the nurserys here in Corpus Christi. What do you know about HEB brand (Hill Country Fare Traditional) Kitty Litter? The bag states that it is 100% natural zeolite. I just bought some but haven't spread it on my yard yet. I didn't realize there were so many different types of zeolite.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeolite & Dry Molasses?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:00 pm
Posts: 6
My hunch is that it is probably sodium bentonite (a clay), especially if it is marketed as a "clumping" cat litter. I do not suggest using sodium-based zeolites on your lawn or in your garden. I advise you to contact the company and ask them or request a MSDS sheet.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeolite & Dry Molasses?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 3:45 pm
Posts: 2842
Location: San Antonio,TEXAS
soilgeek, where do you get "garden variety" zeolite in bulk that is not cat litter? I am a moderator on three organic lawn forums. Zeolite is only a discussion item on this one because Howard mentions it. Nowhere else has anyone heard of it. If you know what he uses, please let us know. Otherwise I'm reasonably sure the zeolite that the organic community is talking about is the HEB generic kitty litter.

More to the original point, I can't see how either zeolite or dry molasses would green up a yellowing lawn. Yellowing is either nitrogen deficiency (add organic fertilizer) or iron deficiency (add greensand). Neither zeolite nor dry molasses will help.

UPDATE ON MONTHLY APPS OF CGM:
Wow! :shock: :shock: :shock:
The grass certainly loves its CGM! Inasmuch as the grass has never been more dense, it might even be overtaking some of the weeds that it has never been able to compete with. I have also kept up with the monthly apps in the flower and veggie beds. Weeds may be held back some. Unfortunately I have not kept a control plot to compare.

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Moderator
Dirt Doctor Lawns Forum


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 Post subject: Re: Zeolite & Dry Molasses?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:05 pm
Posts: 55
Location: Hill Country
Umm, I believe that there are a few different sources of non-cat-litter zeolite.

Supposedly, in the long run, the zeolite can help all nutrients (macro-micro) more readily available to plants for absorption by root. Therefore, if the zeolite attains the iron, assumingly, so does the plant.

D-chall, is the iron in the greensand able to stay available to plants, even on highly alkaline clay soils?

Personal experience?
Thanks!


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