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 Post subject: Specifically Pyrethrum
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:45 am
Posts: 21
Location: Midlothian,TX
Hello Y'all. 8) I know Pyrethrum with PBO is a no no. But pure Pyrethrum is very effective on ant hills. Kills roaches in the house, etc. I also know Howard is against it. But can anyone tell me why? Is Pyrethrum by itself so dangerous? I use it sparingly. Sprinkle like salt/pepper on mound. Two 7.05 oz containers lasts me all summer. One outside and one inside. And the inside one get used outside too. So, what I'm saying is that for $20, I'm good for the year. I tried using orange oil, and that is too expensive for the number of ant hills treated per bottle. So give me some comments :idea: about your experience with "Pure Pyrethum".

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 8:15 am
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Location: Odenville,Alabama
Pyretheum, tobacco teas, rotenone, etc. are all natural pesticides made from plants. Yes, they work very well in killing pests. But that is not the point.

The point is philosophy. Organic and sustainable gardeners are concerned about using powerful soil building techniques using various forms of organic matter, and protecting and encouraging all gardening environment natural predator-prey organisms as much as possible as number one rule. Even natural pesticides should only be used as a last resort, and only when necessary. Once the problem is corrected, and natural predator-prey balance is achieved again in the gardening environment, you go back to regular standards like composting, natural mulching, cover cropping, intensive companion planting, and even good compost tea recipes for better plant and soil health.

Pests are always a sign of something in nature is out of balance or maybe even wrong. Every natural pesticide including neem oil, diatomaeous earth, and even garlic/hot pepper teas kills something! Even if it's as minor as just beneficial soil/composting microbes. The goal of all organic and sustainable gardeners is to feed the microbes and earthworms as much as possible.

That's why when I use "bad" teas like diluted citrus oil/chewing tobacco teas on tough stubborn pests like Japanese beetles, I'll immediately use a high microbioal aerobic compost tea as a foliar/soil drench on my crops the next few days after I'm through using the natural pesticides.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 10, 2003 5:48 pm
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Location: Weatherford,TX
Pyrethrum is a neurotoxin. It affects all of us; dogs, cats ,birds, humans, etc. That is why you shouldn't use it. Use something like Neem Oil or one of the new plant oil sprays if you have to. I agree with the Captain; if you have to use something to kill bugs, use the least toxic method.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2003 10:59 am
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The Captain and KHWOZ hit most of the points, and I'll add another reason. The foreign production of most if not all of the pyrethrum product involves the use of fairly large quantities of severe inputs, which have included DDT (whether the UN "ban" on DDT will end that practice, I don't know). That might even raise the question of whether there are DDT residues in pyrethrum products, but I don't know the answer to that. I think the Dirt Doctor has voiced the position that it doesn't make a lot of sense to use severe synthetics to produce a product from plants, especially if there are sufficient and more benign natural replacements with roughly similar economics. The socio-economic impacts in the producing areas is another angle for another discussion. I suppose a similar thing could be said for the way we produce corn-based ethanol for fuel, but that's another story also.

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In theory, theory and practice are the same; in practice, they aren't -- lament of the synthetic lifestyle.


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