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 Post subject: Chlorine & Organics
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:10 am 
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I have a question about Beneficial Nematodes, Bio-Inoculant, Agrispon and using city water with all its nasty ingredients included.
How much of my results are going down the tubes because im using a hose end sprayer and city water?

Is it possible that the Nematodes die when mixed with city water?

If so, I guess it’s going to be another "ORGANIC" product I will have to buy.

This stuff is getting so expensive.


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 Post subject: Re: Chlorine & Organics
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:43 am 
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Shaunh wrote:
Is it possible that the Nematodes die when mixed with city water?


The producers I have asked that question say that the disinfectants in city water at the tap are not strong enough to damage the nematodes, and that goes for both straight chlorine and for chloramine. I wouldn't say that it's unusual for the occasional treatment batch to run high on disinfectant content, so the odd batch might present a question. If you're concerned, don't use a hose end sprayer. Instead, use rainwater in a clean watering can or clean pump-up sprayer to distribute the nematodes just ahead of or during a rain. (If you use a pump-up sprayer and if the nematodes are packed in vermiculite-like culture medium, be sure to filter the solution well before putting it into the sprayer.) Once they are in the ground, I wouldn't worry about the tap water. As an alternative, you could get a cheap children's microscope and test the nematodes' viability in a tap water environment to see whether using the hose-end will affect them (just don't leave them in water for more than 2 hours).

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 Post subject: chlorine
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:19 pm 
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Location: Weatherford,TX
You can fill buckets of water and leave them set for 24 hrs. The chlorine will be gone. If you aerate the water, the chlorine will be gone sooner.

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 Post subject: Re: chlorine
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:08 pm 
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KHWOZ wrote:
You can fill buckets of water and leave them set for 24 hrs. The chlorine will be gone. If you aerate the water, the chlorine will be gone sooner.


Yes, that's right if the disinfecting agent includes chlorine, and I should have mentioned that option. Dissipating most of the chloramine in chloramine-treated water using a stationery situation would take at least a week, and some say much longer, however. Even that isn't a big deal for the quantity needed to do a normal broadcast, although one probably would want to prep the water before buying the nematodes in order to minimize storage time. I don't think aerating chloramine-treated water reduces dissipation time appreciably, but it might help some. Chloramine is becoming more common in city water treatment programs, and it isn't always easy to detect it. Still, if the treatment factility doesn't overdose the chloramine substantially, it shouldn't cause a problem for the nematodes. How much of an overdose is required to cause substantial mortality, I don't know, and I don't know if one could detect that general threshold level by taste. I don't think it's a big issue, but I prefer to not use fresh treated tap water for dispersing the nematodes from the medium. At the very least, I'll follow KHWOZ's suggestion to eliminate chlorine in case the treatment is a chlorine/chloramine combination (which is common). To that end, I prefer aerating the water some in order to maintain some oxygen content in it. It may be that none of this improves the end results in the average application, though.

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 Post subject: chlorine
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:02 am 
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Location: Weatherford,TX
If in a hurry or worried about the water affecting the nematodes, buy the cheapest purified water you can find. Very cheap at a lot of grocery stores. For spraying you are only going to use a few gallons (depends on area).

Enzyme11, could you provide more info. regarding chloramine? Also, would the aquarium products get rid of both chlorine & chloramine?

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 Post subject: Re: chlorine
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:30 am 
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KHWOZ wrote:
Enzyme11, could you provide more info. regarding chloramine? Also, would the aquarium products get rid of both chlorine & chloramine?


Check your PM for a response, and post more detailed questions if you have them.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:24 am 
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Is it the same for Bio-inoculant and Agrispon?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:23 pm 
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Shaunh wrote:
Is it the same for Bio-inoculant and Agrispon?


It seems to me that disinfectant residue potentially could be a problem for true microbial inoculant products, such as the GreenSense Lawn & Garden Microbial Treatment, although they describe it for hose-end sprayer application. Many of the agricultural bioinoculant product makers specify low chlorine water (or package a product with chlorine-neutralizing agents), but I've seen little mention of chloramine. The issue probably still is the prospect of a disinfectant overdose, but I still think I would use purified water, as KHWOZ suggested, or rainwater in a watering can for those agents. The question of whether the microbe mix in a particular product can tolerate pump-up spray pressures is best addressed to the manufacturer. I suspect they can in most cases, and particle size/filtration is a consideration for pump-ups. I believe Agrispon is not a microbial agent, and, if that is correct, I wouldn't worry about using tap water with it. Chlorine is a problem not only with microbial agents, as it can bind and neutralize proteinaceous products, such as the harpin protein in Messenger. I'm not sure whether chloramine presents binding issues of the same magnitude as does chlorine, but I imagine it presents some.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:24 pm 
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Location: florida
http://www.beckerunderwood.com/inoculan ... ulants.htm

http://www.beckerunderwood.com/inoculan ... water.html

it seems there are 2 things missing in the labels of most of the inoculants on the shelf......all living creatures have a life span (well except god :)...) this type of bacteria has a short life span so why arent there dates on the labels to tell when they should be used? and irrigating with city water thjat is heavy chlorine will have an adverse effect on bacteria according to becker underwood. also if you use a fungicide of any kind guess what the fungicide will kill!

inocculants were created for the farming industry and mainly as an attempt to get seeds and tiny plants growing FAST,,,,after a brief time or when the plants are mature they are ineffective according to everything ive learned.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:02 pm 
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Location: florida
http://www.bio-organics.com/Products.html

read the bottom of the page about ferts and fungicides!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:07 pm 
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Location: florida
http://www.life-enthusiast.com/miracle/biozyme_soil.htm

Quote:
Garden and House Plants:
Dilute 1 oz. of Bio-Zyme Soil Inoculant with 1 gallon of water for soil drench or spray.

Note: Do not use Bio-Zyme Inoculants with fungicides.

Research & Testing


this company doesnt say what kind of water to use but is pretty clear that you shouldnt use fungicides!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:44 am 
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Oh well, these two products I wont buy again.
I can’t justify setting out rain buckets all over the yard or buying water from a food store to use the products....

If the labels on each of the products said something about city water adversely affecting the outcome, I would not be so upset that I bought these products.

I have not heard anything on the radio about the subject as well.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:52 am 
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Scott Fl wrote:
http://www.bio-organics.com/Products.html

read the bottom of the page about ferts and fungicides!


That passage implies that chlorine (being a contact fungicide) is "generally not harmful" to that particular microbial blend. Whether that's true is another question.

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