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 Post subject: 10% viniger
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 6:43 pm 
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only able to locate 5% viniger. 10% is recomended for weed control. where can 10% viniger be puchased in the west fort worth, granbury area?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:30 pm
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Location: Wylie
i found 20% vinegar at lowes yesterday 1 gal for 13.49 i think.. they also have compost concentrate, liquid mollases and a whole slew of other organic products at very reasonable prices..

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2003 7:25 am 
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Lowes has 20% acidity vinegar.

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Shepherd of the Trees
It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succor of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields we know so that those who live after may have clean earth to till.


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 Post subject: 10% vinegar
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 1:22 pm
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Location: Lewisville
first of all 10% or 20% vinegar is ok to use for weeds. However, Howard advises to make sure the vinegar is not made from acetic acid because this is a petroleum product. Make sure it is made from grain. 10% is pickling vinegar. The strongest you should ever use is 20%. It is dangerous, so handle it carefully. Avoide contact with skin and breathing to fumes. Keep the mix well shaken while spraying.

Places in Granbury that are organic sources according to the Dirt Doctor's Dirt are:

Arrow Feed & Ranch
2031 Hwy 377 E
817-573-8808

Better Health Market
1450 East Highway 377
817-578-3131

Places in Ft. Worth are:

AJ Southwest
4309 Village Creek Rd
817-232-2785

Archie's Gardenland
6700 Camp Bowie Blvd
817-737-6614

Herb'n Health Natural Foods
3759 E. Lancaster
817-535-1152

Marshall Grain Company
2224 East Lancaster
817-536-5636
www.marshallgrain.com

Preservation Tree Services, Inc.
7901 Hunters Glen
817-581-4502

Weston Gardens in Bloom
8101 Anglin Drive
817-478-7220
From I-20 exit Anglin Drive
www.westongardens.com

Give any of these places a call to see if they carry the vinegar. I hope this helps.

perfumfree

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 10:37 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:53 pm
Posts: 291
Location: Dallas,TX
Slow down... Wait a minute on the "made from petroleum" quote. It does not matter where it's from!

"For many years, the bulk of commercial acetic acid was produced by the oxidation of ethanol. Today, most industrial production of acetic acid is by the Monsanto process, in which carbon monoxide reacts with methanol under the influence of a rhodium complex catalyst at 180°C and pressures of 30–40 atm."

See: http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/chemweek/Ac ... cAcid.html

Methanol and ethanol are alcohols and the primary way of producing ethanol is via biological feedstocks (grain, corn, etc.). Methanol is mainly produced via a multi-step process starting w/ the stream forming of natural gas. It is a clean process.

So, unless one wants to search high and low and pay 3 times the amount for one's acetic acid (vinegar), it does not matter what one buys. Just like the gas in your car... you can always go electric.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:35 am 
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Billusa99 wrote:
Slow down... Wait a minute on the "made from petroleum" quote. It does not matter where it's from!

"For many years, the bulk of commercial acetic acid was produced by the oxidation of ethanol. Today, most industrial production of acetic acid is by the Monsanto process, in which carbon monoxide reacts with methanol under the influence of a rhodium complex catalyst at 180°C and pressures of 30–40 atm."

See: http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/chemweek/Ac ... cAcid.html

Methanol and ethanol are alcohols and the primary way of producing ethanol is via biological feedstocks (grain, corn, etc.). Methanol is mainly produced via a multi-step process starting w/ the stream forming of natural gas. It is a clean process.


Unless the label says that it's made from apple cider (not just 'apple flavored'), the acetic acid product most likely is derived from petroleum. For foliar feeding, it does make a difference becaue of the trace mineral content of the cider product. For weed killing, there hasn't been much choice but to use the petro-based acetics. The higher molarity products typically are drawn from the glacial acetic production stream or are derived from diluting the glacial end product; they also could be by-products from other petrochemical plant processes. It's not extremely easy/economical to get 20% acetic acid (which is maybe 4M), from apple cider, compared to taking it from the methane stream. Of course, the cider stream is a renewable process and the methane stream isn't.

I suppose the petroleum-based production monopoly could change as more corn-based fermentation ethanol plants come on line, but the change to using plant-derived ethanol as a feedstock for large scale acetic acid production likely would depend on the economics. We're not there yet. Using bio-mass based methanol for acetic acid may be even further off. I wonder how they would label vinegar produced from ethanol made from GMO corn.


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 Post subject: Vinegar percentage
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 9:34 am 
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Location: Midlothian,TX
Hi I've posted on other forums this observation. I've used all kinds of vinegar to kill weeds on an asphalt driveway. NONE works. However, for those who like to be frugal like me. I purchase 9% vinegar at H-E-B groceries for $1.99/gal. That's the cheapest I've found. Good apple cider vinegar at Albertsons. Forget the cost, but obviously more expensive than "petroleum" based vinegar. Be carefull handling that 20% stuff, and IMHO why pay those high prices and then "dilute" the 20% down?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:57 pm 
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Location: Dallas,TX
Interesting the way this thread rises alive, like the mythical phoenix, every now and then.

10%... to heck w/ its birthright... has always worked for me... else I'd really be in a pickle... :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 6:41 pm 
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Billusa99 wrote:
Interesting the way this thread rises alive, like the mythical phoenix, every now and then.

10%... to heck w/ its birthright... has always worked for me... else I'd really be in a pickle... :wink:


Groan..... :)

(I am assuming that you were making a pun)

John C.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:03 pm 
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Posts: 829
Location: Dallas,TX
Hey, kids! I have it on pretty good authority that the 20% vinegar at Lowe's is the natural stuff, so use it with a clear conscience. Yes, it does work. My sis the chemistry teacher says acetic acid is the commonly used name for vinegar and its natural base, so it's kind of hard to distinguish, I agree. How it's derived? Well, I wouldn't like to use anything derived from petroeum on my own soil but I've used this. Again, my sis says if it's not made in a way that it can't break down without creating unwanted compounds, it won't make a difference. Howard's recommendation of mixing it with orange oil & a little soap makes it a killer combination. Sorry PennsyNut but either you just haven't been using it right or the right stuff. There are too many of us out here with success stories for you to stomp us out. Can't disagree with buying 9% at that cheap price but it may be like so many other things, almost enough but not quite. Kinda like putting a little too much water in the Kool-Aid (not that I use this stuff anymore) ? I'll go by a an HEB and give it a try and let you know. Couldn't hurt... I'll try and remember to report in. It would be interesting to compare notes! Let's remember we all have the same goals in mind.


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 Post subject: Vinegar...again!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:59 am 
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 5:33 pm
Posts: 829
Location: Dallas,TX
Lowe's still carries their organic line in this area. Look at the end of the aisle to the right or left of the door leading from the store itself into the greenhouse or outside. You'll find it. Garland, Mesquite and Rockwall all have them.

Roach Feed & Seed in Garland has a pretty large selection of organic products and knowledgeable support staff. Go see them; they have a lovely place. They are just off the old downtown square in Garland.

Good luck and remember, sometimes it takes a couple of treatments to kill weeds with vinegar but it works and it doesn't pollute your soil like everything else on the market!

Pennsynut, I think we may have just realized why your vinegar treatment doesn't work! Cider vinegar is different from straight, white vinegar. Maybe if you switch you'll have success like the rest of us! Hope so! :D

Kathe


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:47 am 
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Location: Garland, Texas
kchervey,

Add to Kathe Kitchens' list Rohde's in Garland. See his website at http://www.beorganic.com He has a great site and is always fun to walk around. Roach Feed & Seed is also nice and if you weren't fortunate enough to be raised around the traditional feed & seed store it is somewhat of a step back in time.

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 Post subject: Re: 10% viniger
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:09 pm 
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Location: Flower Mound,TEXAS
I am sort of new at this. On the vinegar issue - I got the 20% (grain) because that is what was available. So now here are my questions: 1) OK to dilute in half? 2) If I don't use the entire gallon that I make how do I dispose of it or will it keep for future use? 3) Will it damage a painted wooden fence? I can't wait to go kill some grass and weeds!


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 Post subject: Re: 10% viniger
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:06 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:37 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Mansfield,TEXAS
Just a beginner here but seriously moving to organic gardening. At what ratio is the cider weed control applied to the grass? One gallon of mixture covers how many square feet? I've got about 2200 SF of grass.


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 Post subject: Re: 10% viniger
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:51 pm
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It is ok to dilute the 20% stuff and keep the rest in the bottle, it is a stable compound ( vinegar keeps for long in the kitchen too) «you spray it actually, and although I never took exact measurements, I would guess one gallon should be about enough for 2200 feet. Beware, it is like Roundup and kills everything, simply faster.


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