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 Post subject: ponds
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:11 am 
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Dave you have to watch about fescue. There are two basic types of fescue - with endophytes and with out. The endophytes can cause abortions. please advise people to buy endophyte free fescue.
Bob


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 Post subject: miniature cows
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:23 am 
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Dave: This is a guy making toys not cows. Their are many stories about this guy and lets just say he is not part of the legitamate miniature Hereford and Low Line Angus breeders. Our cattle do bring better prices than the mutant cattle (large and out crossed) of today but for ligitamate reasons - supply and demand and grass fed minis no chemical beef that is healthy.
Bob


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:28 am 
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I understand that tall fescue endophites are a universal problem for cattle, but I was talking about a fenced off area getting the fescue. I think I also understand that legumes (like clovers and alfalfas) mixed in real well will prevent the endophite problem for when the fescue escapes the fence. But if there is a more appropriate sod forming grass for your area, by all means, go for it!

Thanks for the update on the toy seller. So you actually take your animals to the legitimate market or feedlots and they sell for more? How much more are we talking? Or do you have special markets for your beef?

What is your weaning weight?
What is a grass fed market weight?
What is the gain/day you expect?
Do you have to have pretty good soil and rain to run 2 minis per acre? Or will 2/acre work in the Texas Hill Country and West Texas?

Sorry for the slightly OT questions. I know how much you hate talking about your babies. :D

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 Post subject: cows per acre
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:31 am 
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Dave: There is no reason to use fescue with endophites when endophite free is readily available. However you have to be on your toes as most feed and seed stores don't know what an endophite does. The old stuff - daddy didn't do it that way.
You are absolutely correct on fencing off stock ponds.
Our last steer we put in the freezer (we sold half) on the rail was 469 lbs.
There are not lot studies on weight gain with grass fed and frankly our market doesn't care. They buy from us to get grass fed, hormone, antibiotic, chemical wormer, and steroid bree beef that has omega III and CLA's.
The amount of meat from each animal varies as to seize. I am breeding for about 43 inches in height. These animals will weigh about 1200 lb for bulls and 7 to 800 lb for cows.
There was a study done that shows that you can raise more beef per acre with short stocky animals than with large mutants plus the shorter animals have differt fibers in teir muscling that make them more tastier and more tender. Also they "finish" better on grass where the large mutants have to be fed grain to gain weight. The larger cows have tougher and less tasty. Why do you think the consumption of beef has decreased so much in the last 30+ years. They are so tough they have to be ground up and coverd with cheese and special sauces on a seseme bun. This a perfect example of our farmers being misled by corporations - feed lot operators, the only ones making money in the beef business (processing probably makes some money) - to make a product for the greedy and to h___ with the consumer. A farmer expects a new truck to be fit and finished for the money he pays. Why should the consumer think of any thing else when he/she buys a steak.
We do sell to the consumer that wants a better quality product and not to the sale barns
Bob Bard


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 12:56 pm 
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"Daddy didn't do it that way."

Bob, my observation is that violating that principle is the way the organic and holistic folks are making money when the rest of the ranchers are selling off herds and land. When you cut out all the expenses you listed, your profit skyrocketed through the ceiling, didn't it?

So your animals are about 75% the weight of the larger breeds but you're growing twice as many per acre. Hmmmm. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that one. Of course I have a few more questions.

How long to weaning weight?

You apparently take them to a market weight...is that about 2 years?

I don't need a big study on weight gain. If you could tell me the birth weight and market weight and the time in between, I could figure something out. I know you live way up there in South Canada north of Dallas, but I could make allowances for other parts of the world.

Who do you sell animals to? I assume you sell them live and do not slaughter yourselves. Are there slaughter houses that take them and do something special with them? Direct to customer?

Where would I buy the beef from mini cattle?

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 Post subject: mini cows
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 9:06 pm 
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Herefords mature about 22 months, but I like to slaughter them on april and may grass which makes them about 24months when they are born in Mar, april, and May.
Mini Angus mature a little earlier than Herefords
Birth weight is about 40lb - a little higher for larger Hereford 44 to 46 inches.
I have never adverized yet because I have been able to find buyers and afraid to advertize since there is so little to sell. Mini low line Angus is in such short supply you can't find breeding animals much less to eat.
There two types of slaughter facilities - state inspected and USDA. Have used state but switching to USDA because they and inspector promise to not only return animals to us but to also give us the liver heart, etc that goes with our animals. and to not question our desire to not use chemicals - nitrates, nitrites, and MSG. This mainly applies to pastured pork.
I can get you grass fed smaller animals (not mini) with out chemicals, but finding mini is hard. I might be able to get mini angus in the next few months but this is exception. These three bull had a cork screw penis which can be passed on to the next generation. These guys are for meat market not breeding. I also have a steer that will go to that happy hunting ground in the spring and we will sell at least 1/2 to some one.
Bob Bard


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:34 pm 
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Location: N of Wills Point
Thanks David and Bob. As a newbie to ranch and farming, I find your posts very helpful. My wife and I are working 80 acres north of Wills Point. 35 acres of pasture and 45 in woods. It hasn't been worked in 50 years. Currently the pasture is burned and ready for weed prevention and soil testing, PH. I'm also looking at putting some cattle on it for personal use. I have yet to contact the county extention agent.
Appreciate the info you guys are posting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:33 am 
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County extension probably will not be of much use if you want to be organic. Listen to Howard and ck out this web site.
Robert D Bard


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:24 pm 
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So what should someone expect from thier County extension ? I assume that if you go Organic, then you don't have to get an "applicators license" for weed control or fertilizer, since it is organic......... :D
Randy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:35 am 
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The county agent is the guy who'll try to convince you to buy all the latest and greatest seed, fertilizer, and hormones from the feed store. And he'll change his favorite seed every season to keep you back at the feed store spending YOUR money. If you follow his advice, the feed store will "give" you a "free" Purina cap and Monsanto windbreaker. And you won't be organic any more because they don't suggest organic stuff.

If you are organic there is generally nothing much to spread or spray. You might spray compost tea without a license.

Will's Point. Can you get one AU per acre on that land?

Check out Joel Salatin's book titled "Salad Bar Beef."

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:32 pm 
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Thanks for the REAL explanation of a County Extension Agent. :lol:

I assume that AU per acre is "animal units per acre". I will check, Our soil is sugar sandy loam. But it has been really dry so....... i'm headed down in the morning and will ask the question from some of the locals. Good friends and good people.
I will check out the book and keep reading. Knowledge is key to sucess or a friend that's done it. ha!

Weed Control on 35 acres: I'm looking at Corn Gluten Meal or Vinegar (10,15 20%) sprayed. I don't have a sprayer yet, so I'm leaning toward spreading the Corn Gluten Meal with the 8N. Any suggestions or preferences?

Sorry about asking the simple questions. I got start somewhwere. :oops:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 8:00 pm 
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Bob, we get about .3 AU per acre. 1 cow to 3 acres. That's what a trusted source told me today. I spent all day with the chainsaw clearing the fence line along the county road. YUCK

The land looks so good right now. It was burned about a month ago. The ground is covered in seed. The birds are have a field day.

Bluestem, I do want to treat the weeds in the spring. I was thinking the Corn Gluten meal. I haven't had a chance to check out the costs.
And vinegar outside the fence along the road. Any ideas on costs of the corn GM?
Randy[/b]


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