It is currently Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:37 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Johnson Grass Poisoning
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:37 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Denison, Texas
We lost 2 young heifers last week due to johnson grass poisoning. Has anyone had experience w/this; how can it be avoided in the future?

Patti


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: johnson grass
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:24 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 12:45 am
Posts: 420
Location: Whitesboro,TX
My bulls just finished an area of johnson grass and they had no problems. Are you sure it was the johnson grass? I love feeding it because it grows well and the love it. In fact if you want to get rid of it, just let the cows on it all the time and they will eat every sprig that pops up. Johnson grass has to go to seed to keep growing.
Johnson grass can have prussic acid if it is stressed - caused by freezing and drought.
Most cattle disease is caused by lack of nutrition - bangs disease, etc. There is a great book by Pat Coleby from "Down Under" and sold through www.acresusa.com about natural care and feeding of cows.
Our cows have free choice salt chunks from Redman UT that has about 70 trace minerals (The salt stuff from Mortons at your feed store is junk from junk science) The way the salt world works is that companies like Morton buy salt and remove all the trace minerals and then sell the minerals and keep a few that they determine is necessary. This applies to humans as well. Did you ever realize why you have to buy salt with iodine added - it was taken out for profit selling it else where and had to be added for thyroid problems. This is the same thing with Sea Salt in health food store, all the trace minerals are removed.
Our cows also have free choice kelp meal because of amino acids and trace minerals. And this is also why we are now fertilizing with ocean water becasue it has 92 trace minerals, amino acids, enzymes, and beneficial bacteria. Fish from the sea never have cancer but fresh water fish and people have all kinds of tumors and cancers. I don't think that is a dumb luck. I think cancer, heart disease, and other degenerative diseases are caused by the lack of trace minerals - hence the lack of healthy foods through you local grocery stores. 100 years ago the cancer rate was 3 % and today it is about 38 or 39 %.
This is a long way from johnson grass, but I haven't had any problems and I know our nutrition is the best it can be and getting better. I know we are parasite free and we use no toxic chemicals to lower their resistance.
Did you look for other causes?
Bob Bard


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 2:57 pm
Posts: 182
Location: Saginaw (NW Fort Worth), Texas
I am not a rancher nor a farmer but your predicament piqued my curiosity. I found this interesting article http://www.wssa.net/subpages/weed/weeds ... ss.htm?o=0 which says that after droughts cattle can suffer cyanide poisoning I guess due to the concentrates left behind - but this poison abates after a good rain. Check it out.

Hugs,
Christina


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:46 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 3:45 pm
Posts: 2884
Location: San Antonio,TEXAS
I've read that keeping a mix of palatable legumes in with your grass will prevent many problems. Can you grow red clover in your area? Alfalfa? Remember it is a mix you're after.

_________________
David Hall
Moderator
Dirt Doctor Lawns Forum


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: grass mix
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:05 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 12:45 am
Posts: 420
Location: Whitesboro,TX
I live in the same area and white clover is the best for this area. The problem is that clover and rye grass has either not come up or died off due to 5 weeks of no rain.
Bahia grass is the only thing green and growning which is probably why we should have more of it in our pasture mixes.
Robert D Bard


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2003 10:59 am
Posts: 277
plevans wrote:
We lost 2 young heifers last week due to johnson grass poisoning. Has anyone had experience w/this; how can it be avoided in the future? Patti


This may be covered in the links that others have provided, but you should be able to test the stressed johnson grass for hydrocyanic acid content. Cyanide "should" be a problem in jg only if it has been stressed, usually by drought or frost, so it is a good thing to monitor cyanide content in stressed situations if it's practical to do so. The usual advice applies--don't graze tainted grass if you can help it, or dilute the tainted product with other forages, and don't allow the animals to eat the tainted forage if they are very hungry. The dilemma comes when the only available forage is suspect, and one can't afford or get supplemental hay/feed. I believe the treatment is a sodium thiosulfate/sodium nitrite combination, but I don't believe it can be used effectively as a preventative. As others have written, having a blend of forages probably is the best preventative. Hydrocyanic acid poisoning usually is not hard to diagnose in grazing animals, which I assume you already did.

_________________
In theory, theory and practice are the same; in practice, they aren't -- lament of the synthetic lifestyle.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 5:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 20, 2003 9:49 pm
Posts: 66
Location: ,
I think that it is more often referred to as prussic acid poisoning, which is the same thing as cyanid. You can find a lot of info on this by doing a internet search. Here are a couple of links that briefly describe prussic acid poisoning and the conditions that cause it:
www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/ansci/livestoc/v1150w.htm
http://stephenville.tamu.edu/~butler/fo ... cacid.html

Certain weather conditions will cause creation of prussic acid in certain plants. The first link shows a list of plants that can develop toxic concentrations under the right (or should I say wrong?) conditions. Some are forage crops such as johnson grass, sudan and clover.

Marlyn


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: prussic acid
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 10:55 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 12:45 am
Posts: 420
Location: Whitesboro,TX
Folks Marlyn found the key to this whole thing if you go to website she recommended.
Conditions: Occurs when young plant tissue is damaged or stressed. Primarily after a frost, or drought in a HIGH N (NITROGEN) ENVIRO.
In addition HERICIDES (2,4-D) can cause CN poisoning.
I don't know about the two heifers but our cows havr no chemicals and eating Johnson grass didn't hurt them.
This another reason why "better living through chemistry" is not in our best interest.
Robert D Bard


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 9:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:37 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Denison, Texas
We have had our property for 3 years and have never used any chemicals, and the man who was leasing the property for cattle grazing before we bought it never used any, to our knowledge.

The pasture the herd was grazing in when our heifers died had not been grazed since last winter. Thus, they were unaccustomed to eating johnson grass and when we turned them into this pasture, the grass had probably been stressed due to the drought conditions we've had this past summer.

Of course, we immediately moved them out of that pasture and my husband doesn't want to let them back in until the johnson grass has been removed. Will mowing it be sufficient?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 12:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:37 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Denison, Texas
I just read the info at the link supplied by Marilyn, which answered my last question. Thanks Marilyn.

BTW, this is an excellent forum. I appreciate everyone's input.

Patti


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 11:08 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 3:45 pm
Posts: 2884
Location: San Antonio,TEXAS
I have a question that's related enough that I'm not going to open a new thread.

Our local horse stable owner doesn't let her horses in the tall Johnson grass because the leaves are too long and will get tied up inside the intestines before they decompose. She says cattle with the four stomachs can handle it. I realize there is a lot of legend and lore that floats around agriculture. Is this one a fact?

_________________
David Hall
Moderator
Dirt Doctor Lawns Forum


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: jornson grass
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 11:56 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 12:45 am
Posts: 420
Location: Whitesboro,TX
I kinda think that is folk lore. We have people in the Sherman area that feed Johnson grass hay to dairy cows and horses andm there is never a problem. If fact we have used Johnson grass hay this year with our horses and cows. I has a great protein content.
The best way to get rid of Johnson grass is to leave cattle or horses on it all the time as they love it so much that they will eat every blade and it will not go to seed and it will die out in short order. If you really want to get rid of J G, I would mow it close to ground and let it dry for about a week and then put cows in and don't take them out for at least a year or two. If you take them out after wards and it starts to grow again put them back in before it goes to seed.
I know I am swimming up stream but I am encouraging our J G as I am tired of buying hay.
Robert D Bard


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 9:17 am
Posts: 15
According to this link you may consider mowing/cutting it to allow it to dry before grazing that pasture. I was not aware that other grasses can have the same effect.
http://www.landandlivestockpost.com/com ... ctices.htm

I don't know if you are a dyed in the wool cattleman but you might consider goats to take care of a pasture while Johnson grass is a problem.
They're pretty good at cleaning a fence line.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Johnson grass
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:29 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 12:45 am
Posts: 420
Location: Whitesboro,TX
I don't think J G is a problem. I am trying to raise it as I am tired of buying hay. I will not stress it and will fertilize it organicly. If I could buy more of it as hay, I would be glad to do so.
Robert D Bard


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Johnson grass
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:32 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 12:45 am
Posts: 420
Location: Whitesboro,TX
I am also trying to get bahia to grow with bermuda. Bahia starts off ok, but it is the last to stop growing in the fall and the cows seem to live. I also use Red River crabgrass. I want "Salad Bar Beef" - this from Joel Salatin in VA.
Robert D Bard


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by eWeblife