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 Post subject: plowing
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:47 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 12:45 am
Posts: 420
Location: Whitesboro,TX
Plowing - take what is on the top of the soil and turn
over so that what anaerobic is on the top and
what was aerobic in now anaerobic. This is dumb
and has destroyed more land than any other
practice - turns about 6 inches. If you can find it -
Falkners book "Plowmans Folly" - back in the
20's or 30's

Disk - take what you have on the surface
and tear it up and work it into the top 2
inches. It will rot and become compost.
A good time to do this is in Sept and
broadcast winter rye grass. It helps
decomposition and brings trace minerals
up from many feet below the surface.
Either graze in spring or disk lightly to
return that to soil - refered to as green
manure crop.

No till - in fall farmers can use a drill - it
takes seed like wheat or oats and digs a
trench and drops seed in the bottom and a
wheel covers up seed. With this you are
not doing anything to the surface.

I have drilled before but this year I plan
on broadcasting Marshall Rye grass and
clover - white and crimson. The crimson
is just an experiment to see if it wll do
well. I am looking for clover that is not
so stemmy (good word?) in late spring.

Don't feel bad, it took me a long time to
figure this stuff out.
Robert D Bard


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:39 pm
Posts: 19
To "till" the soil means to cultivate it. discing would be considered tilling. No-til is exactly what it soounds like. I am not that much of an expert on it. but i do know that in my area of western oklahoma the no til guys seem to have water run off of thier places like a parking lot when it comes a big rain. by what i have heard from alot of the organic people is that if you get the balance of the organics right in your soil that problem will take care of its self. one of them could tell you more about that than i could. one option would be to areate your plot to allow air and water in more easily. i wouldn"t consider that tillage. some hard core no-til people might but i think that the benefit would be noticable. dnd


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 Post subject: disking
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:33 am
Posts: 764
Location: Plano & land at Dodd City,TEXAS
Wow-
thanks to both of you-all I ever wanted to know about till/disk/plow but wasn't afraid to ask.
Patty

_________________
Plano Patty & Jim


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 Post subject: till
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 12:45 am
Posts: 420
Location: Whitesboro,TX
You are correct in your reasoning but
that wasn't the question.
Actually if you go to organic and build
the organic matter - humates the soil will
open and water will not run off and it will
help prevent droughts. Farming has abused
the land since after WWII. The large
multinational companies - ADM, Cargil, IBP,
Tyson, Pilgram, and many others don't give a
damn if you live or die as long as they make a
profit at any expense and as long as you don't die
immediately from what you have eaten so
it can not be traced back to them. The expense
has been family farmers and the land. With the acid
fertilizers and chemicals, the humus has been
farmed out. As that happened, we have gotten
run offthat has taken the top soil and humus to
the Gulf of Mexico by way of the Missouri,
Mississippi, and the Ohio Rivers.
Today the worst 5 foods you can pass through
your teeth are donuts, soft drinks, french fries,
chips of any kind and sea foods. The Gulf of
Mexico is totally polluted and you should not
eat anything from it. Besides that most tuna
and salmon is loaded with mercury and not
edible (exception to that is sockeye salmon
from Alaska).
Should I add any thing else?
Robert D Bard


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:53 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Creston B.C. Canada
Robert,

Had a look at your web site and couldn't agree more - almost.
We both agree about the obvious benefits of humates. Soils killed under chem. farming practices are delivering few to no essential trace minerals to the crops they grow directly causing many of the medical issues our societies face today.
We know what we must do but herein lies the problem (no pun intended). How do we do it. I guess it was perhaps a bit presumptuous of me to assume I know the guy who has the answers so I would suggest anyone interested do some research of thier own as there are many contrary claims when it comes to the various humate products avialable or any product/system for that matter. I've posted a few links from my bookmarks folder to get you going. Just remember that much of the info available on the net is from private companies pushing thier own products and leonardites (oxidized lignites-the source material for most humate extracts) is also called overburden if your looking for the high carbon coal that lies beneath it. Coal companies would love to find a market for this otherwise waste product which clouds the issue even more. Source is very important. Solubility is affected by metals/minerals present in the source material rendering some humate extracts almost useless.

http://www.ar.wroc.pl/~weber/humic.htm#start
http://cropchem.com/pdf/humic_acid_in_agriculture.pdf
http://www.teravita.com/
http://bioag.ab.ca/index.html
http://www.enviromateinc.com/

Have fun! and don't feel bad if you feel a little confused.


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 Post subject: organic wheat
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:46 pm 
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Location: Whitesboro,TX
Thanks for the references. I sell the terratol from www.enviromateinc.com from my website www.robertbard.com. Like the soil we need to detoxify our bodies if we want to loose weight and maintain our health.

Question We all know that there are farmers out here that are up to their eye balls in debt and bankruptcy is at their heals. The cost of restoring is not as bad as all the chemicals they have been using for years.
sea water is about $50.00 for ten acres
liquid humates about $20.00 for ten acres
dry humate $12.00 per acre
molasses is about $1.00 per gal - $10.00 per 10 acres.

Back to the question, If these people want to hang in to survive, why can't they use molasses only? Molasses is 10% nitrogen, sugar, and trace minerals. Lord knows it is available and cheap. I will bet they could grow one heck of a crop. They just might begin the process of climbing out of debt.

Any other thoughts?
Robert D Bard


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:39 pm
Posts: 19
Hi Rbobert. So if i wanted to apply some of one of these products to my wheat fields this fall before planting, how much of it, and which one would be the best. i am not on the brinkl of bankruptcy, and have managed to do that by looking for the most cost effective way to operate. i know that some of my soil needs some help. one good thing is that over the last couple of years i have used very little and in some cases on a couple of my farms no commercial fertilizer. Can these liquid products be applyed before planting or do they need to be sprayed on the wheat post-emerge. it looks like the liquid is much more affordable than the dry and worth the extra work of handling. What about bulk quantities as i am looking at seeding around 1500 to 2000 acres of winter wheat this fall. thanks dnd


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:42 am 
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Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 8:34 am
Posts: 3
Location: dallas
Robert--At the risk of sounding completely stupid--please take me step by step on how you apply liquid molasses. Liquid molasses is very thick. Do you mix it with hot water? In what? Will it work in broadcast type sprayer on some acreage? Thanks.


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 Post subject: organic wheat
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:39 pm 
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Posts: 420
Location: Whitesboro,TX
I am getting some prices on large volumes
and will have tomorrow.

Molasses works very well with water in
simmer or fall after it gets cool. I just
stick a hose in my 200 gal tank and
keep it moving and it mixes. As you
drive the tractor and bounce over the
land the liquid moves a lot and stays
mixed up.

It got late on night and I had 50 gals of
mix left that I wanted to use on pecan
trees and fruit trees. It set for one week.
I took it out of the barn and it was mixed
back in solution almost immediately. How
ever the beneficial bacteria from the sea
water and the molasses had worked for
1 week and it sure stunk, but did fine.
Robert D Bard


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