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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:52 pm 
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I am a wheat farmer in western Oklahoma and would like to know which organic fertilizer that I have heard Howard talk about, i.e. dry molasses or corn gluten meal, might work on wheat. Most of the time when I hear Howard talk of using these products it is in gardening applications and the application rates are impractcal for use on a large number of acres. I would appreciate any experiences that anyone might have had with this and also where a person can find these products in bulk quantities. Transportation is not a problem as i have a semi and hopper trailer.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:10 pm 
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Location: Odenville,Alabama
All grains (like most grasses) just need lots of compost (or green manure/cover crops if you will) for soil building and disease control, and some form of protein fertilizer (like fish meal, corn meal or any other form of grain meal) for extra nitrogen for larger foliage.

My favorite protein fertilizers are cheap pelletized cattle/horse feeds.
My next favorite is aerobic compost tea recipes as foliar/soil drenches.

This works great on my 3 acre no-till farm.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:41 pm 
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captain,
thanks for the reply. would cheap pelletts like corn gluten meal pelletts or soyhull pelletts or wheat mid pelletts work? i am planting 1100 to 1500 acres a year so i need something that is practical for a large scale operation. is dryy mollasses not an option? i hear howard talk about it so much that is why i asked about it too. i haul corn gluten meal pellets alot and know right where to go for them. How much would i put on per acre?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:31 am 
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Location: Odenville,Alabama
Sure! Any pelletized grain feed product would work. All grains are protein, so that adds extra nitrogen and phosphorus to your soil.

All sugar products are high carboneous materials that are easily digestible by all microbes. Also the humus from compost or green manures is mostly carbon and beneficial aerobic microbes.

Unless you add lots of extra nitrogen (protein) to balance the carbons from the sugar, you can mess up your soil by creating a temporary nitrogen deficiency in the soil around your crops' roots.

Any form of sugar should be minimized and balanced with plenty of green material or compost when used straight on the soil.

When sugars are brewed in various compost teas for several days, that's a different story. The sugars get digested and broken down into soluble nutrients and into the safe form of various microbial bodies, for plants to readily use.

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The entire Kingdom of God can be totally explained as an Organic Garden (Mark 4:26)
William Cureton


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:40 pm 
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so if i put 200 pounds of corn gluten meal per acre, how much N AND K would i be applying?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:00 am 
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I usually suggest 10 pounds of CGM per 1,000 square feet for fertilizing turf. So for an acre that would be 436 pounds per acre.

I wonder if you couldn't grow red or white clover in among your wheat to boost the nitrogen in the soil?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:16 am 
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that sure seems like alot. how do you know how much the analysis of these feeds is as far as the pounds of nutrients per 100 pounds of material? i.e. 18/46/0. is the amount of nitrogen related to the protien level of the feed? if so, is it the same? would a 14% protien feed have an analysis of 14/0/0? do these pellets need to be worked in to get the best results? do i apply them before planting or after or does it matter. i wouild think that pre-plant would be preferable.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:46 pm 
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Location: Atoka,OK
Hello out there This is an area I know about proteins and nitrogen. Lol
Protein is 16% nitrogen.
Therefore 1000 lb of feed at 10% protein is 100 protein X 16% nitrogen == 16 lb of nitrogen
cowboysheart


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:49 pm 
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Click on this link...

NPK of stuff

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:47 pm 
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Thanks for the link. are those values per pound? i didnt quite understand. i didnt see cgm on there. is it the same as corn?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:48 am 
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Location: Atoka,OK
Go to this web site for corn gluten
http://beef.osu.edu/library/gluten.html
or this site
http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2002 ... T245.shtml


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:48 am 
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Location: Atoka,OK
Go to this web site for corn gluten
http://beef.osu.edu/library/gluten.html
or this site
http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2002 ... T245.shtml


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:28 am 
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Location: Creston B.C. Canada
dandd,
Last year I attended a sustainable agriculture conference in my town and met the man who has the answers for you. This guy organically farms 3000 that's right 3000 acres of cereal grains in Vulcan, Alberta here in Canada. He realized years ago what you're realizing today, you can't spread compost on 1000+ acres, you just can't economically make that much compost. the answer is humates derived from "brown coal" or leonardite. In short humates contain humic, ulmic and fulvic acids all of which are found in "humus" or in other words "soil organic matter" or "compost". this is a complicated subject but basicaly these three fractions of humus are considered to be very important in soil structure and fertility. The mans name is Allan Graff and he is a pioneer in this area, he uses granular humates and rock phosphate as the foundation of his soil fertility program, he is organically certified and was amongst the first in Canada to do so. If you E-mail me at thompsonmtntrees@hotmail.com I will E-mail you his phone number. Allan is the principle advisor of bio organic systems for Tecologic Product Ltd. and would probably be more than happy to set you up.


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 Post subject: organic wheat
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:39 am 
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Location: Whitesboro,TX
Go to www.oceangrown.com This is all you need
to make an outstanding crop and it is inexpensive.
I did a hay meadow this year that produced 500
square more than it ever produced in the past.
They also have a a farmer in the Dakotas (I think
this is the right area) that grew oats this year with
sea water. He did some fields with commercial
fertilizers and some with sea water. The sea water
totally out preformed the other fields by more than
two to one. The owner Don Jansen used to own
50,000 acres in Ne and when he used sea water
on wheat he out produced all of his other fields
as well as all his neighbors. After liquidating the
ranch he bought the company from Dr Murray
and has carried on the Dr Murray's work and
research.
Also this year when I give my cows a choice
between goood grass hay w/o fertilizer and
chemicals and sea water hay w/o chemicals
and fertilizers they pick the sea water every
time. In fact they will attach a sea water bale
and go through it in 6 to 7 days (5 mommas,
1 bull, 4 5 month old babies)
The secret is in the 92 trace minerals + the
enzymes, amino acids, beneficial bacteria. I
also recommend using liquid humates (to detoxify
old chemicals) and molasses as it feeds the
beneficial bacteria and it has 10% nitrogen.
The salt is beneficial, with out it the trace
minerals are not taken into the plants.
Compost is important but not practical from
a farmers view in your area because there
isn't much available and you would spend a
fortune getting it hauled in. To get organic
matter leave the straw on your fields and
disk it when you do your next crop. In
time this will become compost and help on
erosion and will hold moisture to better help
future crops.
Call Don and Ocean Grown and tell him I told
you to call.
Robert D Bard
my website has a link to humates www.robertbard.com
also has a link to my Sun radio show at 12
noon Dallas time


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 Post subject: organic
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:26 am 
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Location: Plano & land at Dodd City,TEXAS
Sorry to be sooo ignorant but want to know the difference b/w 'disking', 'tilling', & 'plowing'. Have read about 'no till' methods & wondering if this means no disking too? Have 'shredded' our open acreage for 2 years, left the grass/weeds there & it's still hard rock black clay. Will spread humates & molasses (fall? spring? both?) & see if that helps but want to know about disking.
thanks-Patty

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