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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:15 pm 
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Location: Weatherford,TX
These posts don't make a whole lot of sense. It seems to me that all that has been accomplished so far is confusion, possible hard feelings & misinformation. Mosquitoes breed in water; that is a fact. Find the water source & eliminate or control it! If you are watering every few days, that may be the problem. Do you have a bird bath, water fountain or pond (use BTI in water)? Try to water once or twice a week (as needed, not out of habit or sprinkler system settings). Mosquitoes can breed in water left in cupped leaves. If you have absolutely no water standing, your neighbors do. Find out why the mosquitoes love and come to your property. Poisoning yourself & others is at best a temporary solution for discomfort and a source of possible permanent damage to everyone.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:51 pm 
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Location: Dallas,TEXAS
KHWOZ wrote:
Mosquitoes breed in water; that is a fact. Find the water source & eliminate or control it!


For those of us that live in urban or even suburban residential areas there is no chance of us eliminating every single source of standing water that will give mosquitoes access to our property. Zero chance. Someone 5 streets over could be singularly populating an entire neighborhood where everyone else is being vigilant. Consider of all the public areas in and around a neighborhood that no one is responible for where mosquitoes are running rampant. The best you can hope for is minimzation of the breeding areas in your immediate vacinity. How much relief that ultimately gives any given location is dependent on too may uncontrollable factors for one individual in the real world. Them's the facts for most of us.

I do my part. I'm maniacal in my effort to ensure that I don't have any sources of standing water on my little plot. I also check my neighbor's (each to the side and immedately behind me) usually once a week when I go over visit for a beer or gossip. Sometimes more often, sometimes less. I water once a week in hot weather when there's no rainfall and I rarely water the areas that are mosquito prone such as my asian jasmine and liriope. My property is as breeding ground resistant as I know how to make it.

Regardless of preventative measures, there are products on the market that are aimed at repelling mosquitoes from your "yard"- for "up to two weeks!". :roll: I've gone through many of them based on what I've considered reliable information from various sources, be that here, my bug control service, nurseries, or elsewhere. It hasn't worked in any way I've been led to expect in the two years I've been trying them. In my estimation and relatively narrow experience I think I've bent over backwards to make it work because we love to be outdoors, working in the yard, entertaining, playing with the dog or reading a book with a half-decent bottle of wine.

I don't expect my property to be mosquito free. It's just not possible and I know that. I'd just like for them to be greatly diminished from the level where they've been these past two years here. Heck, to be honest I'm personally not really bothered by bites in and of themselves. On any given day I've got dozens of them actively itching and it's easy for me to ignore it. However my son, my wife, our dog and most of the people we have over are very much bothered by them.

The organic personal sprays we've tried (made at home or commercial) have worked marginally or sporadically in a few cases and not at all in others. There are still some out there I've got on a short list to try out and quite frankly that's looking like it will be the ultimate answer rather than keeping the hordes at bay from our yard. I'm hopefull that there's an organic solution out there that'll do it for me.

If not then I'm faced with the decision that's already been voiced here.

~Dave


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:55 pm 
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Location: Midlothian,TEXAS
Billusa99 wrote:
And yes, I am 200% aware (darn, there's that %-age again) that West Nile, as diseases go, is waaaaay over blown. However, the perfectly dead, perfectly unruffled bluejay that was on my sidewalk may beg to differ. Even John Cleese would have bought it had I had an extra perch and some crazy glue handy at the time!


Sorry, Bill... I was just messin' with you. No hard feelings?

Maybe that 'jay got a good dose of your mosquito bomb. Have you had him tested?

Kent

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 10:57 am 
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Location: Dallas,TEXAS
I have to agree with qmj. I've been organic for 2 years and have seen very few mosquitoes in my yard this year. I feed and water the birds (yes, I change the water frequently) and don't mess with spiderwebs or wasp nests (happily, they're not messing with me either). Besides fertilizer, I don't spray anything on my lawn but Garrett juice and beneficial nematodes. Isn't biodiversity the whole point of the organic exercise? It's worked beautifully for me. The same is true for my Dad who lives in Denton County - he's only been organic for a year and has had precious few mosquitoes.

Going back now to watching my new resident hummingbird...


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:25 pm 
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Location: Garland, Texas
Whew! This thread has taken a twisted turn far away from what I'm sure dcluck had in mind when he made the original post. And worse yet, I haven't read anything from anyone which answered his question.

There have been a couple of truths stated. On by dcluck himself, when he said:

Quote:
We, as as followers of organic methods and remedies to common problems in gardening and, in this case pest control, really do want the organic approach to work. We choose to follow the organic approach because at some level we know it's the preferable path compared to the alternatives. That's why we spend time here exchanging experiences, tips and ideas, time listening to people who are well versed in the subject, time researching things in literature and on the internet


and another by Billusa99 who said:

Quote:
Now, if this forum is not for the posting of contrary, experiential comments in the face of personal evidence, then please kill my ID and I will gladly stay away.


I have been at this organic (saving Mother Earth - I've now downsized to just saving my little portion of it) thing for a long time (think back to the original Earth Day circa 1970). That is not a statement to brag or a claim of presenting expert testimony, but simply as a frame of reference. I admit to being something of a zealot in my early years, and when I first found HG's DMN articles in the early 80's I was immediately won over. Actually, we (my wife and I) were aware of HG even earlier (mid to late 70's) through an earlier publication, the original Plants of the Metroplex. We bought the "book", not because of HG, but because of the more recognizable Naud Burnett.

What does all of that mean? It means I like and believe in organics. But they are not a cure all. There are some things they do and do well, but are not effective for all problems. And yes IMO and experience, snake oil exists among the organic products. They're marketing ploys are insidious in that if you carefully read their labeling, they really don't "promise" anything. Which for some is exactly what they deliver...nothing.

My suggestion for those new to organics. Don't believe everything you hear. Experiment and find your own truths. Don’t get discouraged. If someone tells you that every problem you have in the home or garden can be cured with nothing but organics, run as hard and as fast as you would from someone who suggests only a chemical solution.

And for those who are still in the “zealot” stages of organics. Drop the overbearing, condescending attitudes. That won’t win anyone over. Don’t overstate the benefits or effectiveness of organics, willingly and openly admit their shortcomings as easily as we tout their successes. It’s OK. Neither side is all right or all wrong.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:43 pm 
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Location: Garland, Texas
KHWOZ wrote:
KHWOZ wrote:
Mosquitoes breed in water; that is a fact. Find the water source & eliminate or control it!


:lol: :lol: :lol: A wildlife sanctuary is located at the end of our neighborhood. It is a large marshy area at the back end of a lake. I welcome you to explain exactly how you would go about accomplishing this.

This is nothing that dcluck or anyone who has access to newspaper, radio, or TV doesn't already know.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:29 pm 
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Location: Weatherford,TX
Dear Mr. Clean :?

Quote:
This is nothing that dcluck or anyone who has access to newspaper, radio, or TV doesn't already know.


I am not questioning the knowledge of dcluck or anyone else. I have learned a lot from reading other peoples posts. It bothers me that when natural products don't work for some people, they revert to poisons, even when they know exactly what they are doing to themselves, family & people on their property (politically correct; can't have people think bad of you). Great way to promote organics & convert others???? Yes, most people have access to various forms of media. Does that mean they pay attention or believe the information? If you watch TV, you are led to believe that you need to get your city to spray Pyrethrin type products & put Deet all over yourself, kids & others.

I don't know if it would have much impact but what about putting mosquito dunks in the marsh? Work on getting your city to do something about the marsh (probably not a good idea; they will probably spray it with poison). Organics may not work in a particular situation; that is why we keep looking, testing, posting & searching for a solution. As you said in a previous post, "NOTHING IS A CURE-ALL". Reverting to poison does not solve the problem!

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:17 pm 
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Location: Garland, Texas
KHWOZ wrote:
I am not questioning the knowledge of dcluck or anyone else.


If you weren't questioning, then you made a poor choice by placing that statement in bold.

KHWOZ wrote:
... It bothers me that when natural products don't work for some people, they revert to poisons,
...
If you watch TV, you are led to believe that you need to get your city to spray Pyrethrin type products & put Deet all over yourself, kids & others.


I don't know what TV or media outlets you follow, but on mainstream TV stations; each year they will have a news segment (including video) advising people to eliminate standing water from their property. This is very common for the past several years. Just watch channels 4, 5, 8, or 11 in the D/FW viewing area.

What would you have people do? When natural organic products don't work, you had better believe I am going to reach for a DEET based product to keep from being tormented by the pests. Step off your porch and get into the "wilds" as some of us do while fishing/hunting/camping. Then you can decide the effectiveness (or lack of) some of the "natural" products. Would I prefer that they work? Of course! As I said, they smell much better, but smell isn't everthing.

KHWOZ wrote:
I don't know if it would have much impact but what about putting mosquito dunks in the marsh?


A marsh is not your bird bath in the backyard. It is acres of land/water. Calculate the cost! And I'm sure that a dunk in a creek will really be effective.

KHWOZ wrote:
...Reverting to poison does not solve the problem!


But they will solve some problems/situations where natural products can not.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 1:55 pm 
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Location: Weatherford,TX
Mr. Clean, do what you need to do. If I have an alternative to toxins (even if it may not be 100%), I'm using the safe approach. I see no need to carry on these useless posts; we're not solving anything. By the way, Off and others carry non deet products, has anyone tried them?

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The "soap" you use is normally chemicals, etc. Use real SOAP !!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:32 pm
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Location: athens
Please everyone, just try this-----get a clean 12oz. pump spray plastic bottle, fill it 1/3 full of vanilla extract (not immitation) and the rest of the way with water. Spray it on you and be amazed----no mosquitos, flys, gnats, or anything will bother you for at least an hour, and you will smell good to. It's not "oiley" and dries quickly. Oh, and it's very inexpensive, the bottle will last for a long time. Just try it!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:53 pm
Posts: 291
Location: Dallas,TX
Dave, Mr. Clean ... ditto what you said.

KHWOZ: One man's poison is another man's gain. Again, it's a value judgement.

Beyond that, read Dave's long reply after Howard threw out the 'proud' canard. I can drop dunks in every gutter of the area I live and it won't cure the wettest summer on record. Does everybody know that mossies hatching now could have been laying as dormant eggs for 1-2 YEARS till the rain came to their little dry silo??

And, with all due respect Mr. Vance, we are looking for yard suppression, not personal protection. But thanks for the suggestion! :wink:

Bottom line is: there are a LOT of companies advertising that they fix the issue -- and their products are c*** in that regard in east Dallas as far as I can see THIS year. This year the only thing that fixes my (and my guests) issue is fog. Next year I hope it's different. Bye. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:12 pm 
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Location: Midlothian,TEXAS
No offense to anyone that chooses to use neurotoxins in the form of foggers, but one man's poison... usually winds up drifting next door.

Label precautions:
Hazards to humans and domestic animals—Caution: Harmful if absorbed through skin or inhaled. Avoid contact with eyes, skin, or clothing. Avoid breathing vapor. Wash thoroughly with soap and water after handling. Remove contaminated clothing and wash clothing before reuse. Do not use on edible crops. This pesticide is toxic to fish. Do not apply directly to any body of water. Do not contaminate water when disposing of equipment wastewaters. If inhaled: Move person to fresh air. If person is not breathing, call 911 or an ambulance, then give artificial respiration, preferably mouth-to-mouth if possible. Call a poison control center or doctor for further treatment advice.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:12 am 
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Joined: Sat May 10, 2003 5:48 pm
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Location: Weatherford,TX
Billusa99 Wrote:
Quote:
KHWOZ: One man's poison is another man's gain. Again, it's a value judgment


If Deet was only one man's poison, It wouldn't bother me as much. A poison is a poison to all. It is your personal choice to poison yourself. Just because you choose to use it does not make it non-poisonous. What's worse, you are likely to promote it to others who know no better.

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The "soap" you use is normally chemicals, etc. Use real SOAP !!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:58 pm 
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Location: Midlothian,TEXAS
Billusa99 wrote:
And, with all due respect Mr. Vance, we are looking for yard suppression, not personal protection. But thanks for the suggestion! :wink:

I'm not sure I understand yard suppression when you could use skin applicants like vanilla extract, as Jim Vance suggested. This eliminates exposing others to unwanted drift. Why not let your "guests" decide? Have a spray bottle on the patio and give them the option of using it. You could even have Deet products for those not concerned about toxins. Just explain to them the differences and let them decide.
Toxic fogs leave your guests with no option because, for it to work, it has to linger in the air. Once it dissipates, the 'squiters come back. Personally, if I was a guest at your home, after the 15 minutes of fog, I would just stay inside. I won't hold my breath waiting for your invite. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:38 pm 
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Location: Garland, Texas
KHWOZ wrote:
If Deet was only one man's poison, .....quote]

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah… I thought you were through with…

KHWOZ wrote:
I see no need to carry on these useless posts; we're not solving anything.


KHWOZ wrote:
These posts don't make a whole lot of sense. It seems to me that all that has been accomplished so far is confusion, possible hard feelings & misinformation.


It seems you can't heed even your own advice.

If you would bother to READ some of the posts

dcluck wrote:
I've tried Cedarcide, Skeeter D'feeter and Cintronella Repella, each enough to determine that they don't do squat on my property. This season alone I've spent just short of $300 divided amongst these three products and it's been as effective as burning the cash in a brazier in the hopes that the fumes would keep them at bay. :x


Billusa99 wrote:
I feel for ya, DC! Skeeter D'feeter works for me for an outdoor party for about 1/2 hour, and that's after a drenching of all grass and hedges.


Mr. Clean wrote:
We have used Skeeter D'Feeter, as an indoor repellant, with no great success. For personal use we have used Skeeter D'Feeter and Cactus Juice. When in the mountains of Colorado in the wooded areas and around the rivers/streams/and creeks, I have had to resort back to a DEET based product from REI called Jungle Juice. Though the SD and CJ smell much better, I was tired of getting eaten up.


(I omitted another, Burt’s Bees LemonGrass Insect Lotion)

before flailing your arms and declaring the sky is falling, you might learn that a variety of products have been tried. They have not worked, effectively. People are seeking a reasonable discussion for alternatives. Most participants on this forum are already committed to some level of using earth friendly products, when they work. When they don't, I for one am going to seek an alternative. From your comment you are willing to pay for and accept mediocre results. That is fine for you, but you can’t demand others to accept your lower standards. The style and content of posts (a lot of whining and stern reproaches for anyone who even considers stepping over "the line") found in this thread IMO do not effectively serve any attempts at bringing new converts into the fold. No one likes to hear "my way is the right way, the only way and you are wrong".

I do have a question about the vanilla solution. Has anyone tried this outside of the porches of their urban/suburban environment? Does it attract any other flying insects ie. wasps/bees etc.?

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