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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:32 am 
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I rarely recommend Bt and never as the first choice. I would personally never use it because other things works as well or better - plus Bt kills butterflies. The good side of all this is that more and more exposure is being given to the problems related to GMOs.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/story ... .htmlToxin

http://127.0.0.1:4664/cache?event_id=15 ... P7LHgSa5aE

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/BTgen.pdf

http://www.beyondpesticides.org/pestici ... ets/Bt.pdf


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 4:55 pm 
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Wow! I am very confused by this post. Because of this listing in the Natural Organic Library (http://www.dirtdoctor.com/organic/garde ... on/id/184/) we have just used Bt on our 100% organic garden. It worked wonderfully and we thought we were using a recommended product.

I now know, though, why I don't see all the butterflies I saw earlier in the spring... :(

What other products work just as well?

Thank you!

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 5:02 pm 
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I don't use it often, and only sparingly, but I do use it because I have a healthy crop of Tobacco hornworms each year. What would you recommend for those big green beasties in the tomatoes, Howard?

This morning you mentioned the problem may have arisen from commercial users building it into plants or operations. Would you talk a little more about the plants in the U.S. marketplace that fit this description:

Quote:
Fresh doubts have arisen about the safety of genetically modified crops, with a new study reporting presence of Bt toxin, used widely in GM crops, in human blood for the first time.

Genetically modified crops include genes extracted from bacteria to make them resistant to pest attacks.

These genes make crops toxic to pests but are claimed to pose no danger to the environment and human health. Genetically modified brinjal, whose commercial release was stopped a year ago, has a toxin derived from a soil bacterium called Bacillus thuringiensis ( Bt).


This is from one of the articles you linked to.

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 5:28 pm 
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Yes, that is very helpful, Northwesterner. Thank you. I will also be very interested to hear more...

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:16 am 
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Could Spinosad be a replacement for Bt?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:19 am 
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Love My Garden! wrote:
What other products work just as well?


Spend $100 on invisible wasps every spring! :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:49 am 
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Spinosad is not anything I use because it is deadly to honeybees, especially the liquid sprays.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:14 am 
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I haven't used it but heard that if you spray early in the morning, before a lot of bee activity, and it's allowed to dry then there's no harm to the bees or beneficials.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:03 pm 
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I'm concerned because I have been using a very small amount of a Mosquito Dunk (as suggested) to control mosquitos in my rain barrel. I use the water for all potted plants and this year on my new container tomato plant. :( Does this mean I shouldn't eat the tomatoes that have been watered with the rain barrel water treated with the dunk? I haven't picked any yet, but was looking forward to the day I could eat them!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:20 am 
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I don't believe there's any harm to your tomatoes or yourself by using the dunks. It was intended to be used in such a fashion.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:51 pm 
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So what can we use?

Gotta admit, I'm a little confused here as well.

What does a good job and takes BT's place, but without killing butterflies?

I can't open the articles... does anyone care to quickly summarize what they are about? Is the concern here, simply the use of BT intermixed in the GMO world? If so, seems like an unfair shake for BT... It has worked well for me in the past, while many other "organic" solutions have failed.

If the choice exists between "BUTTERFLIES, OR TOMATOES, I'll have to side with the tomatoes.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:57 am 
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If you spray spinosad in the early morning BEFORE bee/butterfly activity it will not harm them. I had to do that yesterday for my tomatoes and an hour later my garden is swarming with bees, still pollinating the dickens out of the plant and others around it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:54 am 
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Well, I find the hornworms to be pretty resilient. Orange oil definately did not take care of them... Sprayed my tomatoes in the evening, went back 30 mins later, and there they were, gorging themselves. They decimate a garden way too quickly for me to not take a preventative approach. Yes, they are easy to "pic off", but not always easy to find. In fact, this was the first time I had actually found them, though I had experienced damage for several consecutibve days. I had wirtten the damage off to that of a different pest, but I was wrong... If it looks like hornworm damage, then it is. I can't be in the garden "patrolling" all the time. BT is still on my list of "good solutions" until I see more info on it's pitfalls.

Happy Gardening!


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